Minotaur + Executioner's Axe = OMG!

[cignus_pfaccari]

It's nice, but it's not game-breaking. You're hitting less than you would with (say) a greatsword, so the expected damage per round isn't going up nearly as much as you think, and the true disturbingness is only with a lvl30 weapon, which you may never see anyway.

I was trying to decide if it was worth it for my minotaur battle cleric, and I really can't say I can see him swinging an axe. A sword or a hammer, yes, and I've thought about the mordenkrad, but really I'm still likely to go bastard sword and shield with him later on.

Brad

 

[Ginnel]

Purely a DM choice. My DM, and when I DM I allow, the races from the MM, if you can come up with suitable justification and background for wanting to play that race, not just "Dude, I want to be a goblin!" As has been stated before in this thread, aside from warforged (and possibly gnolls here once the article from this month's dragon is released), the MM races are for the most part inferior to the PHB races. As such, with proper justification, I see no problems letting them play the races, they just have to be ready for the prejudice they are likely to face being said race

I'm just saying they aren't PC races which is factually correct as per the core rule books, can a DM let you play one? for sure, but I see little point including them in optimisation battles and worries about rules until they include a player race in a PHB or players guide that actually has oversized weapon fighting.

 

[Runestar]

This is nonsense. Whether a race should be allowed or not (as with any other material) should be judged solely on its own merit, and not what book it comes from (because it draws on the mistaken assumption that core = balanced). Are you saying that you will allow a completely broken combination if it came solely from the PHB?

 

[Ginnel]

This is nonsense. Whether a race should be allowed or not (as with any other material) should be judged solely on its own merit, and not what book it comes from (because it draws on the mistaken assumption that core = balanced). Are you saying that you will allow a completely broken combination if it came solely from the PHB?

Well this is a rules forum and the original post is talking about this being a bit too good as a player class I believe of course the original post could be talking about NPC's doing nice damage but I doubt it, and the rules as written don't allow this as its not a player race its the same as saying OMG dragons are broken I'm playing a level 3 one in my current game cause the DM said yes, I'm just reminding people that these races weren't meant to be player races and any o.m.g they're really powerful should be limited to their role as NPC's.

a completely broken combination from the PHB no I wouldn't allow it, but whats that got to do with the price of cheese?

 

[Runestar]

OMG dragons are broken I'm playing a level 3 one in my current game cause the DM said yes

Considering that there is currently no dragon base race, allowing a player to play say, a solo very young white dragon as the equivalent of a 3rd lv PC would indeed unbalance the game. The reason is more because it is obviously too strong to be allowed as is, rather than simply it being in the MM. Regardless of what book it came from, it would still be overpowered nonetheless.

I'm just reminding people that these races weren't meant to be player races

An argument should not only be correct, but also correct for the right reasons. Why aren't they suitable as player races? Just because they are not in the PHB, or because they are too strong? I have yet to see any proof remotely suggesting the latter, and the former just does not hold any water in my book. Why would a race found elsewhere automatically be deem as unsuitable simply because it was not printed in the PHB?

The OP was inquiring if said combination was indeed too powerful or not? Shouldn't that be the question we ought to be answering, rather than some imaginary question about whether MM races are to be used as npcs or PCs.

 

[Spatula]

I'm just reminding people that these races weren't meant to be player races

If that was true they wouldn't have PC races writeups. You don't need all that information just to make NPCs (height, skill bonuses, non-combat abilities like the drow's Trance, etc.).

 

[Ginnel]

The OP was inquiring if said combination was indeed too powerful or not? Shouldn't that be the question we ought to be answering, rather than some imaginary question about whether MM races are to be used as npcs or PCs.

Nah he wasn't, there wasn't actually a question at all in the first post.

He stated the damage possible with the minotaur template and the executioner's axe and didn't even mention player characters, subsequent posters mentioned that so I mentioned the bit about MM races as players, simple enough.

 

[Dreadite]

But...but... DOPPLEGANGERS!

In the campaign I'm running we've got a doppleganger rogue... I allowed a bit of extra power for the characters as we've got a party of two. Which as I understand it, is hardly ideal.

But so far, the shapeshift ability has rarely been abused to the point it could be, and we're all having a lot of fun with it.

(Justification: The PCs are strictly a mercenary force, run by a former wizard who was crippled and his powers diminished in a fight with a Lich back in his adventuring days. His motivation? Train an army of extremely strong PCs to kill the lich, steal his powers back, and then become a lich himself... he's slowly going chaotic evil level insane. Should be fun when the PCs actually get to that point.)

 

[Wonka]

I'm just saying they aren't PC races which is factually correct as per the core rule books, can a DM let you play one? for sure, but I see little point including them in optimisation battles and worries about rules until they include a player race in a PHB or players guide that actually has oversized weapon fighting.

Why stat them out in the back of the MM if they werent meant for players to use as a playable race? Now pick up the FRPG, Drow are a PLAYABLE race in the book, which is considered core. Hell, MM is considered core. All Im saying is to say the monsters as stated out in the back of the MM are not for player use is just wrong. Sure, your DM might not allow them to be used, but the point is they CAN be. There is a difference. Now as has been posted, using a monster that is not stated out in the back is a totally different story, as your example of the young dragon illustrates. That example is NOT valid in the context of this argument, becuase the dragon is not stated out for player use.

 

[BASHMAN]

Why stat them out in the back of the MM if they werent meant for players to use as a playable race? Now pick up the FRPG, Drow are a PLAYABLE race in the book, which is considered core. Hell, MM is considered core. All Im saying is to say the monsters as stated out in the back of the MM are not for player use is just wrong. Sure, your DM might not allow them to be used, but the point is they CAN be. There is a difference. Now as has been posted, using a monster that is not stated out in the back is a totally different story, as your example of the young dragon illustrates. That example is NOT valid in the context of this argument, becuase the dragon is not stated out for player use.

And since Drow = most broken of all the MM races, the fact that they made it a regular playable race means that there is no reason not to do the same for all the rest. They are just going to spread it out, 1 or 2 per book to get people to buy more books, of course!