Mirror Image ... most confusing.

[Berk]

The only illusions that can be disbelieved are those with "Will disbelief" in the Saving Throw entry of their stat block.

Untrue

Check out change self. Nothing under Saving Throw in the stat block but in the spell description it says you do get a saving throw to disbelieve if you interact with it.

And anyway, someone musta missed the part that mentioned house rule. =o)

 

[DiFier]

. . . I rule that the images are "in and around" the same square. The figure on the map marks the center of the effect, but all the images are in constant motion around that point.

This is the way we play it too. Even tho combat is broken up into rounds and actions that is just mechanics. the mirrors move around constantly, merging and unmerging with the caster.

of course you could always just attack the one that isn't floating around and moving sideways while his feet are not moving.

 

[IceBear]

Hmmmm - that's interesting. I know not all illusions can be disbelieved. I suspect the spell in question doesn't mention a saving throw because it's not cast on someone else. Since it specifically mentions the disbelief in the description it still points to the fact that if the spell doesn't mention disbelieiving you can't (so no disbelieving mirror images - the interaction is the actual disruption of the image anyway )

IceBear

 

[Stalker0]

I go based on the literal interpretation of the spell. ITs a 2nd level spell afterall. So if you target the real guy, you are immune from the mirror image, until the mage moves, causing all the images to randomize again, and you have the miss chance once again.

I think this puts the power of mirror image on par with blur, while sometimes the mirror images give MUCH higher miss chance, at other times its no miss chance at all.

 

[Dash Dannigan]

Somehwhat OT but, cast Scatterspray on a bunch of marbles at the MI'd mage's feet. Reflex save for the mage and images, any images hit cancel out right? since they've come into contact by another object? Just wanted to run this by some folk as it came up in the last game.

 

[Lucius Foxhound]

Hmmmm - that's interesting. I know not all illusions can be disbelieved. I suspect the spell in question doesn't mention a saving throw because it's not cast on someone else. Since it specifically mentions the disbelief in the description it still points to the fact that if the spell doesn't mention disbelieiving you can't (so no disbelieving mirror images - the interaction is the actual disruption of the image anyway )
IceBear

As IceBear implies, Mirror Image can definitely be disbelieved. All you need to do is, as the SRD says: "interact with it in some fashion." So if you make a successful touch attack against an image, you definitely have proof it's not real. Thus, it disappears.

Change Self can be disbelieved as well.. but similarly, it takes interaction. Just closing your eyes and saying "I disbelieve" won't do it.

Oh, and I hate house rules.

 

[IceBear]

I know but I believe Hypersmurf answered the question appropriately from the rules as written.

What happened in my group is we switched from 2nd Edition to 3rd Edition and we all missed the part about the images being within 5ft of each other, etc and ended up playing it like in 2nd Edition. By the time we realized the mistake the campaign was well underway and I didn't want to change something mid-campaign.

Based on the confusion that the 3E version has generated, I'm not unhappy about this mistake at this time

IceBear

 

[dkilgo]

Mirror image, this is a tricky one.

I play it as such:

1. I allow it to be disbelieved.
2. All the images shuffle around. Only after contact with the original mage has been made. (move-equivalent for the mage to shift back to confusinf his foes.)
3. All the images are doing the exact same thing the caster is doing. Hence the mirrored image.

I like it this way, and it is a heck of a lot easier to deal with in game. Also, descriptions of the encounter are not that difficult when going with this method of play.

 

[IceBear]

I agree with what you said, except the disbelieve thing. It makes the spell much weaker if you can disbelieve it - at will. Any spell that allows you to disbelieve at will has it in it's description. With mirror image, the disbelief is built into the spell - if you hit an image you have proof that it's not real and it vanishes.

To allow someone to just believe makes it pretty weak. "What there are now 5 spellcasters all doing the same thing? I made my Will save, they all vanished"

IceBear

 

[dkilgo]

I meant the disbelieving when you make contact with the image. Not by just making a Wil save. Sorry about that.