Mirror Image vs Evard's
- Thread starter Qualidar
- Start date
Evard's is an area effect, but its an area effect that makes attacks, and attacks get rid of images. I can see your point, but my argument for Evard's taking out Images is the same as why I think Magic Missile shouldn't, relative spell level. MI is a 2nd level spell, MM is a 1st, so one casting of MM shouldn't nerf or otherwise totally invalidate the higher level spell. EBT is a 4th level spell, so I don't have a problem with it steamrolling over MI.
(By-the-by, have they come out with a higher level MI with non-disappearing images, because I could see that at 4th level as a counterpoint to EBT.)
(By-the-by, have they come out with a higher level MI with non-disappearing images, because I could see that at 4th level as a counterpoint to EBT.)
I just noticed that, reading over the spells. Every creature in the area of effect makes Grapple checks against the tentacles, the tentacles don't have to make touch attacks to initiate Grapples, nor do they have an initiative order or anything else that would allow them to attack.
From that, I'd have to admit Joachim's first response is correct in regards to the Official Version. (I still would like to see a higher level MI spell with non-dismissable Images, something in the 3rd level, 1 rnd per level vicinity. Improved Mirror Image.)
From that, I'd have to admit Joachim's first response is correct in regards to the Official Version. (I still would like to see a higher level MI spell with non-dismissable Images, something in the 3rd level, 1 rnd per level vicinity. Improved Mirror Image.)
I'm not sure what you're saying (other than images are not creatures, which I get). Are you saying that EBT would ignore the images because they aren't creatures? I would agree with that, except it leads to the conclusion that a character with MI in the area of an EBT would be grappled by tentacles, and surrounded by his five identical twins who are acting like they're being grappled even though no tentacles are going near them. (Or more likely, the images will have illusionary tentacles to grapple with, which won't affect the EBT in anyway, but will still make them identical to the MI'd character.)
A better question might be what happens to images when a creature attacks the caster, and initiates a grapple? If he gets lucky enough to grab the real guy, what do the images do while the real guy gets grappled? Watch? Or do you suddenly have a pile of identical images and grapplers?
A better question might be what happens to images when a creature attacks the caster, and initiates a grapple? If he gets lucky enough to grab the real guy, what do the images do while the real guy gets grappled? Watch? Or do you suddenly have a pile of identical images and grapplers?
phindar said:
Of course.
phindar said:
There are no images of grapplers.
Mirror Image is not powerful enough to create additional illusions of other foes or spells. It can only make the images look like the caster (including burn marks, etc.).
In an Evards, only the actual caster would be grappled. His images would pretend to be grappled, but you would be able to distinguish between the caster and his images by the fact that he is actually grappled by the tentacles and they are not.
This is no different than the normal use of Mirror Image (although I suspect that many people do not play it this way). The first successful attack against the protected caster tells the opponent exactly where the caster is and all subsequent attacks automatically target the caster until the caster can move on the next round and reshift his images.
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