Mixing variants? 5e

[redrick]

There isn't necessarily anything wrong with mixing and matching these two features — taking the ability score bonus of Feral and swapping out the Infernal Legacy spells for the Zariel spells — but you are cherry picking features from two different treatments of the Tiefling — one published officially, and the other published in rough draft form. It could have unintended consequences, and some groups prefer to minimize those.

And, as was said upthread, once you opened up UA, you left "legal" behind. With UA, you are already in the realm of home-brew, and should work collaboratively with your group to make sure it works.

My general feeling is, whenever you mix one Extra feature to combine with another Extra feature, you need to be careful, and you should check with the DM to make sure things will work the way you think they'll work. Ultimately, it's the DM's job to manage the balance of the game and the group, so it's best to be as communicative with the DM as possible to make sure there won't be any problems.

 

[Miguel Borges]

There isn't necessarily anything wrong with mixing and matching these two features — taking the ability score bonus of Feral and swapping out the Infernal Legacy spells for the Zariel spells — but you are cherry picking features from two different treatments of the Tiefling — one published officially, and the other published in rough draft form. It could have unintended consequences, and some groups prefer to minimize those.

And, as was said upthread, once you opened up UA, you left "legal" behind. With UA, you are already in the realm of home-brew, and should work collaboratively with your group to make sure it works.

My general feeling is, whenever you mix one Extra feature to combine with another Extra feature, you need to be careful, and you should check with the DM to make sure things will work the way you think they'll work. Ultimately, it's the DM's job to manage the balance of the game and the group, so it's best to be as communicative with the DM as possible to make sure there won't be any problems.

Geezus.

He might just be new to RPGs and hasn't yet fully grokked the role of the rules and the DM (and you oughtta know it's not an obvious thing readily understood by people new to the game)

Or maybe his DM is a more by-the-book kinda guy so the by-the-rules answer is likely to apply.

Yeah

im new to the game and i really like the idea of a tiefling, i just wanted to make it better in combat, i dont want to debate with my DM about it, just wanna make sure it was not a stupid or impossible idea

 

[redrick]

Yeah

im new to the game and i really like the idea of a tiefling, i just wanted to make it better in combat, i dont want to debate with my DM about it, just wanna make sure it was not a stupid or impossible idea

Welcome to the game!

It doesn't have to be a debate. Tell your DM why you want to use the combination, and they will let you know where they stand on it. I would just run it by them before you build the character or get too attached to the idea, because they might have a reason they don't want to go there. Personally, as a DM, I want to work with the players to come up with something that is fun for everybody, but when a player shows up with a fully built character that uses some questionable interpretations or unofficial content to achieve an exploit, I get a little irritated. On the other hand, if the player brings it up early on, I'm much more likely to roll with it, or maybe suggest a change or a concern, or ask the player if they are cool if we see how it works but possibly revisit after a few sessions if it's not firing right, or whatever.

I should also add that, hopefully, this isn't about a power trip from your DM. Really, it's about the group, but, in most groups, the DM is trusted to make those calls, because, ultimately, the DM has to put everything together and make it all work.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Yeah

im new to the game and i really like the idea of a tiefling, i just wanted to make it better in combat, i dont want to debate with my DM about it, just wanna make sure it was not a stupid or impossible idea

Why would your DM debate? What are the in character reasons for your PC to be a feral Tiefling of Zariel?
Ask your DM if feral Tieflings are a thing in his setting, explain to him how your Tiefling can be feral yet being strongly link to its devil forefather. Dont go to him with a build patched from different sources, stretching the rules, just because he was tolerant enough to open every material to you, with the only reason behind your choices being ''I wanted to be stronger in combat''. Go to him with an explanation as to why your mechanical build fits the vision you have for this character backstory.

Hope it goes well for you.

 

[happyhermit]

Yeah

im new to the game and i really like the idea of a tiefling, i just wanted to make it better in combat, i dont want to debate with my DM about it, just wanna make sure it was not a stupid or impossible idea

That's the thing though, there aren't any "impossible" ideas or rather what is possible varies from table to table and game to game, it's ultimately up to the GM. I've seen players get to play; full grown dragons, giants, mice, yet on the other hand (even in the same game) not all the PHB classes/races were allowed. So when you ask if it's "Legal" as you did, in the context of a home ttrpg like 5e using playtest material etc. the only correct answer AFAICT is "If the GM says so". Maybe you were just asking for clarification on what the rules allowed, RAW (rules as written) or RAI (rules as intended) though, it wasn't clear to me.

 

[DRF]

Yeah

im new to the game and i really like the idea of a tiefling, i just wanted to make it better in combat, i dont want to debate with my DM about it, just wanna make sure it was not a stupid or impossible idea

New to the game and already a min-maxer. That's brutal.

 

[stoneagewar3]

Yeah

im new to the game and i really like the idea of a tiefling, i just wanted to make it better in combat, i dont want to debate with my DM about it, just wanna make sure it was not a stupid or impossible idea

If I am your DM, your reason honestly won't be enough to let me pass it, actually, I wouldn't even look at the proposed change, better in combat is not an interesting character concept, and it wouldn't be worth my time to look at and decide what needs to be changed to be brought in line with other players.
also, something can be in the phb and the DM still has full rights to veto it. so if you want something, homebrew or official, you will need to talk to your DM about it. I for one don't allow for tieflings unless you can give me a compelling reason, if not, too bad. While I have no problem to work with my players to create races that are not in any official, or UA sources as long as they are willing to throw an interesting concept at me.

 

[redrick]

If I am your DM, your reason honestly won't be enough to let me pass it, actually, I wouldn't even look at the proposed change, better in combat is not an interesting character concept, and it wouldn't be worth my time to look at and decide what needs to be changed to be brought in line with other players.
also, something can be in the phb and the DM still has full rights to veto it. so if you want something, homebrew or official, you will need to talk to your DM about it. I for one don't allow for tieflings unless you can give me a compelling reason, if not, too bad. While I have no problem to work with my players to create races that are not in any official, or UA sources as long as they are willing to throw an interesting concept at me.

There are better ways to encourage new players to embrace role-playing than blasting their character build decisions. It is pretty common for new players to look at all the rules and options and say, "I want to build the best character I can," and that's not, in of itself, wrong, no more than it's wrong to look at the character sheet and say, "I don't know what any of that means, I just want to play a dwarf." The player can, honestly, make a choice for mechanical reasons, and not be "doing it wrong." A good DM will work with the player to link those mechanical decisions to a broader narrative, but they shouldn't shut the whole thing down out of hand just because it's "not an interesting character concept." (They can certainly shut it down for other reasons, like, "I'm not comfortable with the mechanical implications of that choice.")

A DM can do more to encourage role-playing at the table than in character creation. I like to check in with players and ask them how their character feels about things that have just happened. Lean into the Ideals, Bonds and Flaws of the characters, and reward players playing to those features with Inspiration. (Backgrounds are a great way to get players who feel comfortable "playing off their character sheet" to think in terms of character decisions instead of player decisions.)

The advice to the OP is good advice to DM's as well. Don't develop an adversarial relationship over character builds. Lighten up and try to be flexible. Put the needs of the group over the Awesome (or anti-Awesome) of a particular character. What happens at the table is more important than whatever pluses or minuses may or may not be on the character sheet.

 

[Satyrn]

Yeah

im new to the game and i really like the idea of a tiefling, i just wanted to make it better in combat, i dont want to debate with my DM about it, just wanna make sure it was not a stupid or impossible idea

Well, I'd rule against it - so it would be impossible at my table. For me, it looks like the UA tiefling is an alternate or expanded draft of the SCAG tiefling, and thus is meant to be used in place of it. It doesn't look to me like it was meant to be mixed and matched like you want to.

But it's not stupid, and I could totally see some other DM letting it work.

As in aside, the slight boost to combat ability that your racial choice will grant you isn't worth much in the long run. I find the flavorful, interesting features that a race grants - the ones that make the race feel like tiefling - provide far more fun for me.

So if your DM does wind up ruling like I would, you'll be fine just taking the Zarial tiefling without being feral.

I would never have played a gnome if I hadn't chosen it randomly, but playing it I discovered it's my favorite race feature-wise. It just feels so gnomish.