MM2 Rant

[Inez Hull]

I recently bought the MM2 and after checking it out thoroughly I have to say that I'm just as thoroughly dissapointed. The large amount of save or die type attacks for the higher CR creatures (and even some of the not so high CR's) was a big dissapointment. Personally I find it lazy writing and limits using the creatures as statted to a raise dead game only.

Am I alone in this?

 

[Creamsteak]

I recently bought the MM2 and after checking it out thoroughly I have to say that I'm just as thoroughly dissapointed. The large amount of save or die type attacks for the higher CR creatures (and even some of the not so high CR's) was a big dissapointment. Personally I find it lazy writing and limits using the creatures as statted to a raise dead game only.

Am I alone in this?

Your not alone, not here, where all forms of evil qualms and masters of the dungeon exist. You are not alone. You are part of the swarm.

My problem with both monster manuals is that they are about 20 pages of rules, and 200 pages of examples. Why don't they make the book actually contain something important, like a step-by step for creature creation, a simple ad-hock CR or ECL system, some examples of different versions of creatures (more than one stat block for the elves, for instance). Cut the tons of monsters your giving me, and give the the mechanics. I can extrapolate my own critters from the mechanics.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I say just introduce a lot of high-level damage-dealing spells and the problem with save or die is largely solved.

Who want's to plain ol' disintegrate when you can FIRAGA!

-- Going back to Black Magic: Kamikaze Midget

 

[rounser]

Cut the tons of monsters your giving me, and give the the mechanics. I can extrapolate my own critters from the mechanics.

Sounds plausible, until you figure out how many man hours of full time development work must have gone into creating those "examples". I'd rather have enough monsters to not need to design many more, saves a massive amount of time better spent on other things...like adventures, NPCs, plot hooks, encounters, that sort of thing.

 

[Creamsteak]

Sounds plausible, until you figure out how many man hours of full time development work must have gone into creating those "examples". I'd rather have enough monsters to not need to design many more, saves a massive amount of time better spent on other things...like adventures, NPCs, plot hooks, encounters, that sort of thing.

Well... see... your at least happy with the examples. My fantasy creatures are much less fantastic than the ones they use, and therefore I always get stuck creating my own. There is always some new chaotic humanoid race on the rise in my campaigns, and stating those is fun and all... and over time I've figured it out... but I wish they would have defined it: instead of giving me samples... and samples...

 

[rounser]

My fantasy creatures are much less fantastic than the ones they use, and therefore I always get stuck creating my own.

If they're less fantastic, can't you just tone down MM2 contents instead of creating from whole cloth? i.e. pruning special abilities, changing the appearance, and working out a new CR to fit would be easier than working from scratch, I'd imagine.

 

[Creamsteak]

If they're less fantastic, can't you just tone down MM2 contents instead of creating from whole cloth? i.e. pruning special abilities, changing the appearance, and working out a new CR to fit would be easier than working from scratch, I'd imagine.

Not for my purposes, sadly. I simply wish I didn't require the ability to deduce how they came up with things. I wish they would have told me. I mean, come on, how big could it be? Were they even working with a development process? I think so, so why not include it?

Anyway, we are hijacking I think.

 

[Maggan]

You're looking for something like this?

http://www.enworld.org/cc/downloads/default.asp

A step by step discussion on how to create a monster for D&D3e! Maybe not exactly what you're asking for, but as close as you'll get at the moment, I believe.

Don't forget to take note of the errors mentioned!

Cheers!

Maggan

 

[Kaji]

To respond to the original question...

I liked the new MM II just fine. Not having any desire (or time) to hand draft all my own monsters, I'm just fine with the MM's the way they are. Besides, someone already suggested using what's presented as a base, and then subtracting or adding to fit your needs. This is what I do with MOST D&D products anyway, take what I want/like/need and ignore or remove I don't like. As far as Save or Die attacks, there usually spells available to a wise party to help take the edge off that kind of thing, and True Resurrection is not really all that teribly expensive at the levels your talking about. And in the end, who wants to live forever??

 

[ThomasBJJ]

I thought MM II was just fine. There was enough usefull stuff in there to satisfy me. A few favorites were missing, and a few things i did not like were in there, but that how things work out.