MMO grinding and D&D Insider

[phil500]

I assume most people on here have at least some experience with MMOs, from a little diablo 2 to 5 capped WoW toons.

Grinding has a negative connotation, but I do not think it is entirely negative.

One thing is certain: the button mashing action in diablo 2 and the cooldown cycling action of WoW make for repetitive gameplay. So what keeps people interested? Leveling and Looting, that is, grinding.

Lets face it: if WoW let people start characters at level 70 and choose their gear from all of the available items the game would have far less than 10 million subscribers. However, no one will be selling DDI items or accounts on ebay. You can just roll a level 30 character, after all.

What I am getting at is: should DDI find an OPTIONAL way to tap into this? It certainly seems to keep people hooked and give them a sense of accomplishment.

I was pondering how this could be done today. Just like there is a "flag" if a DDI character is illegal, perhaps the software could set up some sort of flag on a character. It could track monsters killed for XP, and have randomized level appropriate loot tables. Characters whose XP and loot all came from this system would have their own sort of flag.

Sure, there is the problem of non-combat xp, or worse yet people setting up encounters just to farm xp and keep the flag.

But it still seems like there might be something here. I mean if poor gameplay and grinding keep people playing WoW, couldnt amazing gameplay and standardized XP/loot make DDI incredible?

What I am getting at is: people are (rightly or wrongly) proud of their raid loot carrying level 70 WoW characters, but no one brags about loot tweaked level 20 DnD characters.

 

[Kunimatyu]

This sounds like more of an issue for the Living campaigns, where people are, incidentally, quite proud of a high level well-equipped character.

 

[ShockMeSane]

Well, the problem with this is that based on your DM, you might have an extremely hard or easy path to level 30, from encounter difficulties to monty-haul. So unless WotC is willing to license DMs, it's all going to be a bit meaningless insofar as having an uber character to show off. Still, I've had characters I was extremely proud of, and so have the players that I DM for.

Also, the other major problem with the comparison between D&D and MMO's is that in an MMO, every player is going through the same exact content each time they level up. So its no wonder the leveling process has to be long and drawn out, and the end game dungeons repeated endlessly to acquire the best loot. In D&D, you can just start a new campaign, and everything is completely different the second time around.

I don't say all that to bash MMO's, they definitely have some things to recommend them:
No one has to be in the mood to be creative, no one has to DM, you can easily play online with friends with a generally non-arbitrary ruleset without DM-fiat, etc.

Still, I don't really see where grinding in D&D will appeal to the same MMO crowd.

 

[Leatherhead]

Grinding isn't an accomplishment, it is the act of doing something in a repetitive manner in order to get to the fun part of the game. However I will admit grinding more or less resembles a second job, and people are addicted to working.

And incidentally in WoW you can create a level 70 with some the best gear right out of the box. See here: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/pvp/tournament/index.xml

Edited to say what I meant

 

[Dausuul]

But it still seems like there might be something here. I mean if poor gameplay and grinding keep people playing WoW, couldnt amazing gameplay and standardized XP/loot make DDI incredible?

What makes you think WoW has poor gameplay? I haven't played it myself, but judging by Blizzard's other titles (and WoW's sales figures), the gameplay is probably excellent. It isn't D&D, but that doesn't make it worse, only different.

Poor gameplay and grinding generally lead to a bankrupt MMO. The market is far too crowded for anything else.

 

[Imban]

Poor gameplay and grinding generally lead to a bankrupt MMO. The market is far too crowded for anything else.

That's why no one plays Ragnarok Online, right?

I have to pitch in and say that WoW does not have bad gameplay, though, but bad gameplay on its own certainly doesn't seem to be enough to sink an MMO.

 

[BradfordFerguson]

I haven't followed all the DDI and Gleemax news/info. What they could do is give some kind of tangible benefit for community activism. If there is character sharing with DDI maybe there could be rewards for characters most used by users other than the creator?

Otherwise, I just don't see a grinding aspect...?

 

[FadedC]

As somebody else mentioned you certainly see some element of grinding in living campaigns. In Living Greyhawk people would voluntarily spend hours playing through an adventure they already knew was bad, with a DM they knew was bad, just to get some xp and loot for their character. Sometimes they would even travel way out of their way for the privelege.

 

[Hussar]

Ok, there are a few mistakes in the OP.

The VTT of the DDI is only a virtual tabletop. That's it. It does not keep track of anything, any more than your kitchen table does.

IT IS NOT A GAME.

Any comparisons to the VTT and a MMORPG are completely off base.

Now, that being said, what you are looking for is the RPGA. They've been doing exactly what you've outlined for decades. And the VTT is going to be a HUGE boost for them. I can foresee official RPGA games being run almost constantly on the DDI. Players will be able to hop from DM to DM, just like convention play and score points for their RPGA accounts.

You could already do this with Dungeon adventures which gave points for your home games.

A tiny fraction of the RPGA membership would be more than enough to make this fly. 1000 users (out of the 150 k members) would be 200 groups (or so) meaning you'd have a RPGA game starting every hour of every day, seven days a week.

Beauty. I just hope they hire some more people for the RPGA to keep things running smoothly.

 

[Spinachcat]

Now, that being said, what you are looking for is the RPGA. They've been doing exactly what you've outlined for decades. And the VTT is going to be a HUGE boost for them. I can foresee official RPGA games being run almost constantly on the DDI. Players will be able to hop from DM to DM, just like convention play and score points for their RPGA accounts.

This is Hasbro's cash cow if they are smart. Done right, I can see RPGA becoming a million gamer organization in 5 years. They've already got over 100,000 active without DDI and this is only going to help them explode.

BTW, RPGA membership is free (currently) so it would not add any additional costs to your DDI fees.