MMV: Not sure I like this...

[Arkhandus]

This didn't bother you when the feat came out in Complete Arcane (page 81)?

I think it would actually take a 4th level fighter thanks to Spellcraft 2.

Personally I don't think its that big of a deal, having seen it in play for awhile. You usually don't see two of these in action at the same time, and normally it can be defeated with a 5' step.

If you are a 20th level wizard and this is troubling you, you have bigger problems.

You can get 2 ranks of Spellcraft at 1st-level. Cross-class max rank is 2 at 1st-level, so it's not hard (just costs 4 skill points). Just mentioning.

And two guys flanking you with spiked chains and Power Attack could really mess up your day (let's just assume they're each wearing a Helm of Teleportation or similar, OK? So as to feasibly get into position so close to the mage).

 

[Nightchilde-2]

I was scanning through my copy of MMV today, I noticed the Mage Slayer feat on p.85. This feat basically prevents casters in the threatened area from casting defensively (amongst other things).

I must say, I'm not keen on this idea. This means that my 20th level Wizard with maxed Concentration ranks, Skill Focus (Concentration) and a high Con bonus is completely unable to cast defensively due to the effects of a feat that any 3rd level Fighter could possess. (And note that the feat negates the ability to cast defensively, rather than giving the possessor the ability to make an AoO. Thus, if two characters threaten the caster then the caster will suffer an AoO from both.) Personally, I would much rather the feat either give the possessor an AoO in these circumstances or, better, apply a penalty to the caster's Concentration check.

Am I alone in holding this view?

To quote Mr. Horse from Ren & Stimpy, "No sir, I don't like it."

I didn't like it when it first came out in Miniatures Handbook. Nor have I liked it any other time it has come out.

 

[coyote6]

I don't like it, because I can't see how it makes sense in-game. Casting defensively is paying attention to one's environment, thus not dropping one's guard, while still casting a spell (thus a Concentration check, rather than a Spellcraft or something else). It's something the caster does.

How does a non-magical trait of another person prevent that from happening?

I'd be okay with it if Mage Slayer gave an AoO against spellcasters that were casting defensively; I'd even be okay if it boosted the Concentration check inflicted by the damage (e.g., the DC became 20+damage, or even 10 + twice the damage).

But this miraculous non-magical "hah, you can't do that for no explicable reason, 'cause I have this feat!" aggravates me.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Yeah it makes no sense. It would be a lot better if it allowed AoOs rather than magically preventing any defensive casting within its field of doooom.

 

[Kunimatyu]

I'd be okay with it if Mage Slayer gave an AoO against spellcasters that were casting defensively.

Since the only purpose of casting defensively is to avoid AoOs, I'd say that's exactly what Mage Slayer is. However, at least the feat is nice enough to let a caster -know- that they can't cast defensively while next to a Mage Slayer, as opposed to simply allowing AoOs on casters, which would be a nasty surprise.

So, I guess what you're saying is that Mage Slayer isn't powerful enough?

 

[Jolly Giant]

In my group, we all disliked this feat. We thought it weird that one character's feat should make it impossible for another character to do something. Doesn't matter how many feats related to casting defensively the caster has; he could have both Combat Casting and Epic Skill Focus, a 3rd level character with the Mage Slayer feat still automatically removes his chance of casting defensively! Is there any other feat that works in a similar way?!?

So in our games, the Mage Slayer feat gives the caster a penalty equal to the Mage Slayer's base attack on the check to cast defensively. Personally, I still don't like it, but I was in a minority. IMO, a feat should affect the character who takes the feat, not those around him.

 

[Sejs]

Good idea (a feat that lets a character specialize in harassing spellcasters, such that it's more difficult for them to pop off spells at close range, risk-free) ... poor execution (the caster level reduction and making the action 'impossible' rather than restoring the otherwise bypassed AoO).

 

[Glyfair]

Since the only purpose of casting defensively is to avoid AoOs, I'd say that's exactly what Mage Slayer is.

I think you are missing their point. The feat doesn't just allow the person with the feat to make an AoO against the person casting defensively, it prevents them from doing so. This matters when the target is within the threat range of any other hostile figure on the battlefield.

They are not just vulnerable to the person with the feat, but to everyone in the area.

 

[delericho]

This didn't bother you when the feat came out in Complete Arcane (page 81)?

Or the time before that in the Miniatures Handbook (p 27)? Heck, its timing of publication makes it one of the earliest 3.5e feats.

I must have missed it in Complete Arcane - there are a lot of feats in that book (and the rest of the "Complete..." series, which I was reading at the same time). I don't own the Miniatures Handbook.

Well it seems many Player-type folks stop liking some splat feats once the monsters get a hold of them.

I'm a DM-type. But it is true that a lot of feats are particularly nasty in the hands of a monster, where they might not be as good in the hands of a PC. This neatly mirrors the way some monster abilities (notably flight) are more powerful when the 'monster' is used as a PC than it would be normally - hence the LA system.

However, my problem with this feat is primarily that it's a perfect offense. That is, no matter how optimised the Wizard in question is at the key check, he simply cannot cast spells defensively under this feat.

 

[green slime]

I don't like it, because I can't see how it makes sense in-game. Casting defensively is paying attention to one's environment, thus not dropping one's guard, while still casting a spell (thus a Concentration check, rather than a Spellcraft or something else). It's something the caster does.

How does a non-magical trait of another person prevent that from happening?

I'd be okay with it if Mage Slayer gave an AoO against spellcasters that were casting defensively; I'd even be okay if it boosted the Concentration check inflicted by the damage (e.g., the DC became 20+damage, or even 10 + twice the damage).

But this miraculous non-magical "hah, you can't do that for no explicable reason, 'cause I have this feat!" aggravates me.

Exactly. I have never liked this feat, and it is banned from my game.