D&D 5E Moar Feats

[SkidAce]

Missed this one on the way through - from the WotC Twitter feed.
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The best character I can think to make of this is a fist and shield defender fighter who uses the shield block reaction and punches and grapples enemies who try to attack their friends.

I think I might refluff that as Martial Artist. (For the non-monk martial traditions in my homebrew.)

 

[Neonchameleon]

It won't be vanishingly rare at all. Many folks will be using point buy. In point buy, you will usually pick your stats so you get even-numbered values after applying racial mods. However, this can lead to you ending up with a leftover stat point. What do you do with that stat point? No sense not using it, so you shove it in a secondary stat and forget about it. Therefore, point-buy characters with a single odd-numbered stat will be fairly common.

And now you're busy destroying your own argument.

If Constitution is a secondary stat to the point you can simply shove a spare point into it then it's a low stat. Durable is awful if your Con is 12 or lower after the feat and pretty poor if your Con ends up at 14 and you use the most generous interpretation of the feat possible.

We know there are other feats that add to Con. I posted the Tavern Brawler in this thread - and it's IMO preferable for anyone with any intention of getting into a fight. (If only unarmed strikes counted as Finesse Weapons). So the case you outlinedoesn't work well - the feat is just that bad.

 

[Agamon]

I'm liking these feats. Quality over quantity and all that.

BTW, two different elements for "thunder" and "lightning"? I can see that getting mixed up unintentionally.

I never mix those up. Thunder is the left gun, Lighting is the right! Booyah!

 

[Thaumaturge]

I never mix those up. Thunder is the left gun, Lighting is the right! Booyah!

Boom.

Thaumaturge.

 

[Dausuul]

And now you're busy destroying your own argument.

If Constitution is a secondary stat to the point you can simply shove a spare point into it then it's a low stat. Durable is awful if your Con is 12 or lower after the feat and pretty poor if your Con ends up at 14 and you use the most generous interpretation of the feat possible.

If you have a Con of 13, and no other odd-numbered stats, and you want to improve your Con (presumably you've already maxed your primary stat), you will obviously choose a +1 stat feat to do so. So you agree that Durable is better than +2 Con in this situation. It only remains to compare to other +1 stat feats, of which we currently have one example. You get to that in your next line:

We know there are other feats that add to Con. I posted the Tavern Brawler in this thread - and it's IMO preferable for anyone with any intention of getting into a fight. (If only unarmed strikes counted as Finesse Weapons). So the case you outlinedoesn't work well - the feat is just that bad.

I disagree. If I'm playing a wizard, Tavern Brawler's secondary benefit is a total waste. I have attack cantrips and I have wizard weapon proficiencies, both of which are better. How often am I going to end up disarmed and in a dead-magic zone and in combat? Maybe once in a campaign, if I have to bust out of a prison with anti-magic cells or something. Unless I intend to play my wizard as an actual tavern brawler, I will get far more value out of Durable.

 

[Neonchameleon]

In short
1: Assuming you only have one odd numbered stat
2: That stat is Constitution
3: You are a wizard or possibly a rogue
4: The rest of the half-constitution feats are either as weak as Durable or as inapplicable as Tavern Brawler
5: There are no good half-feats that fit the wizard so you get +1 to two stats and that as your feats
6: Your constitution is at least 13

Durable might be something other than a waste of half a feat.

 

[Nine Hands]

Durable got buffed. It used to only give you a minimum of your Constitution modifier(minimum 2).

I can already see the arguments about whether or not a Wizard with this feat and 20 CON gets 10 HP per HD with this feat.

Regardless of his roll he gets 10 minimum (twice his Con modifier). Sometimes, when he rolls a 6, he gets 11.

A Fighter would get the same minimum of 10 but can get up to 15 if he rolls a 10.

It's pretty simple.

 

[Samurai]

In short
1: Assuming you only have one odd numbered stat
2: That stat is Constitution
3: You are a wizard or possibly a rogue
4: The rest of the half-constitution feats are either as weak as Durable or as inapplicable as Tavern Brawler
5: There are no good half-feats that fit the wizard so you get +1 to two stats and that as your feats
6: Your constitution is at least 13

Durable might be something other than a waste of half a feat.

What about this situation: Con is an important stat for you, and you have an 18 currently. You want to raise it to 20, but you like some of the 1 stat point + benefit feats. So instead of just taking +2 Con and maxing out at 20 (and then it's useless to get Durable because the +1 Con is wasted), you get Durable one time and another feat for +1 Con next time.

 

[Ashkelon]

What about this situation: Con is an important stat for you, and you have an 18 currently. You want to raise it to 20, but you like some of the 1 stat point + benefit feats. So instead of just taking +2 Con and maxing out at 20 (and then it's useless to get Durable because the +1 Con is wasted), you get Durable one time and another feat for +1 Con next time.

You would still be better off with any other combination of defensive feats.

Tough for +2 HP per level
Resilient for +1 to a stat and proficiency in its saves
Heavy Armor Mastery for DR equal to your Con mod and +1 Str

Durable is the last defensive feat I would ever choose given those options (not to mention a flat +2 Con).

Now, does anyone have an example of a "roll" in 5e referencing the die roll + total mods. I don't think there are any. All the references to roll single out the die roll itself ignoring all modifiers. The halfling lucky trait, the rogue reliable talent, great weapon mastery and fighting style, HD healing, etc all use language that avoids calling a roll + mods a "roll". This is different than pre 5e D&D and would imply that a 20 Con fighter always gets 15 HP per hit die if he has the durable feat. The feat is still junk though.

 

[Dausuul]

1: Assuming you only have one odd numbered stat

Yes.

2: That stat is Constitution

Yes again.

3: You are a wizard or possibly a rogue

No. The only criterion here is that you aren't concerned with being disarmed. You could be a monk, a caster cleric, whatever.

4: The rest of the half-constitution feats are either as weak as Durable or as inapplicable as Tavern Brawler

Well, we have so far seen two half-constitution feats, and two out of two meet this description. It's a very small sample, but so far it supports this being a common situation. Half-stat feats are clearly not going to offer much on the non-stat side.

5: There are no good half-feats that fit the wizard so you get +1 to two stats and that as your feats

Yes.

6: Your constitution is at least 13

No. If your Constitution is 9, you are still better off with Durable than putting points into Con. The Durable benefit is better than nothing and nothing is what you get otherwise.

Really, #4 and #5 get at the crucial question: If you have a single odd-numbered stat, what are your "half stat" options to even it up? At the moment, the only ones we've seen are Durable and Tavern Brawler. I have seen both feats blasted for being weak and worthless. But if all others are on a similar power level, then they will be perfectly good feats. Durable seems like a good fallback option; it provides some benefit--a very small one, but nonzero--to everybody, whereas Tavern Brawler is only good for folks who expect to need to fight barehanded and don't already have that ability from someplace else.