Modern Eras: Hell on Earth WWII... Thoughts?

[ragboy]

So,

I just bought this, and haven't had the chance to read it yet. I know ledded will probably comment (and I hope he does), but has anyone else out there used the advanced classes and other stuff for WWII gaming?

Other than hoping that more of this was open content, it looks like exactly what I was looking for in WWII gaming.

 

[ledded]

So,

I just bought this, and haven't had the chance to read it yet. I know ledded will probably comment (and I hope he does), but has anyone else out there used the advanced classes and other stuff for WWII gaming?

Other than hoping that more of this was open content, it looks like exactly what I was looking for in WWII gaming.

You rang, sir?

Yeah, I use a bunch of stuff from it. It has some good advanced classes, new feats, rules for terrain affecting vehicles, airplane combat rules (which are Charles Rice's OGL'd) and a ton of gun/vehicle stats. While I didnt agree with all of them, I use a lot of the stats with my own homebrew. All in all, it's very much worth having for building a WWII game based on d20 Modern, though I did a good bit of copy-paste for my own game from a variety of sources, including a good bit of reading on my own.

It's a very good product with a few issues here and there (though I'm not a fan of the way they use tables in it, but it's a small thing I get over).

 

[ragboy]

You rang, sir?

Yeah, I use a bunch of stuff from it. It has some good advanced classes, new feats, rules for terrain affecting vehicles, airplane combat rules (which are Charles Rice's OGL'd) and a ton of gun/vehicle stats. While I didnt agree with all of them, I use a lot of the stats with my own homebrew. All in all, it's very much worth having for building a WWII game based on d20 Modern, though I did a good bit of copy-paste for my own game from a variety of sources, including a good bit of reading on my own.

It's a very good product with a few issues here and there (though I'm not a fan of the way they use tables in it, but it's a small thing I get over).

So far, I'm sort of underwhelmed with the level of detail I was expecting. Nit picky stuff, mostly (MG34/42 barrel issues, no detail on bazooka/panzershrek/piats...etc). I like the vehicle stats and some of the feats seem pretty cool, but I'm not too far into it yet.

What from the book do you 'use all the time' and what do you not use? (Sorry that's pretty broad...)

Thanks!

 

[Aaron2]

airplane combat rules (which are Charles Rice's OGL'd)

Where did these come from originally?

Talking about OGL and Bloodstones 1948 setting; it would be nice if there was an open source WW2 alternate history setting. I've got my own that I'm working on based (loosely) on the old Command Magazine game Tomorrow the World.


Aaron

 

[ledded]

Where did these come from originally?

I believe that stuff was in Blood and Guts

Talking about OGL and Bloodstones 1948 setting; it would be nice if there was an open source WW2 alternate history setting. I've got my own that I'm working on based (loosely) on the old Command Magazine game Tomorrow the World.

Aaron

I too wish there was a good reliable open source WWII. I personally like my cobbled together homebrew a lot, but I can't send it out to any of the folks who've asked for it because it's not OGL.

So far, I'm sort of underwhelmed with the level of detail I was expecting. Nit picky stuff, mostly (MG34/42 barrel issues, no detail on bazooka/panzershrek/piats...etc). I like the vehicle stats and some of the feats seem pretty cool, but I'm not too far into it yet.

What from the book do you 'use all the time' and what do you not use? (Sorry that's pretty broad...)

Thanks!

Well, I specifically use the aircraft rules, some of the advanced classes, some of the feats, the environmental rules and rules involving vehicle movement pretty much as they are, with some additions for extra crunch or flavor.

The timeline and some of the fluff text was handy and I used it where appropriate.

The stats for personal firearms I used a little, mainly just used a list of my own that I put together based on my research and the advice of quite a few actual experts on the Wizards boards (Johannixx, MontannaKennedy, DJorgenson, et al). I use almost all of the stats for larger weapons with a few minor variations where my research or advice from an expert deviated, though not too much (mortars, cannons, etc).

I used the vehicle stats but with this caveat: for armored vehicles, I took the hardness as a "max armor" value, i.e. the best case armor thickness/angle at the thickest point and determine armor from there. I basically divide a tank or armored vehicle up by 5 "areas" (front, back, sides, rear, top, bottom) and then compute the hardness based on the armor thickness/angle for those locations (if data was available to me; if it wasnt, I took them as a simple ratio). When someone fires on a tank, I allowed the ability to 'crit' one (disabling a system or bypassing hardness), and there are feats that someone specializing with anti-tank weapons can take to ignore some hardness or increase their crit range. Also, I simply figure out which of the 5 "areas" they could possibly target by thier facing and do a simple random roll to see which they hit; they can also attempt to target a specific area at an increased defense (like aiming specifically for the tracks with a bazooka). I also had some very quick and dirty rules for disabling tank systems based on the total amount of damage they had taken.

I threw in some stuff from V for Victory and a few other things I'll mention later, I have to go now so I can get home and prepare for the big ol' hurricane about to slam us back into the stone age.

 

[ragboy]

I used the vehicle stats but with this caveat: for armored vehicles, I took the hardness as a "max armor" value, i.e. the best case armor thickness/angle at the thickest point and determine armor from there. I basically divide a tank or armored vehicle up by 5 "areas" (front, back, sides, rear, top, bottom) and then compute the hardness based on the armor thickness/angle for those locations (if data was available to me; if it wasnt, I took them as a simple ratio). When someone fires on a tank, I allowed the ability to 'crit' one (disabling a system or bypassing hardness), and there are feats that someone specializing with anti-tank weapons can take to ignore some hardness or increase their crit range. Also, I simply figure out which of the 5 "areas" they could possibly target by thier facing and do a simple random roll to see which they hit; they can also attempt to target a specific area at an increased defense (like aiming specifically for the tracks with a bazooka). I also had some very quick and dirty rules for disabling tank systems based on the total amount of damage they had taken.

I think there's a need for a more detailed vehicle-on-vehicle combat system for d20. I'm wondering if I can come up with a marketable product for this.

I threw in some stuff from V for Victory and a few other things I'll mention later, I have to go now so I can get home and prepare for the big ol' hurricane about to slam us back into the stone age.

I really liked V for Victory. It was quick and dirty with the ability to bolt on detail pretty quickly.

I was just wondering if you were in the hurricane area. Good luck!

 

[malladin]

I really like Hell on Earth. I particularly like the ability to do the non-military stuff with it, which I don't think its competitors manage. I've designed but not actually run a WWII occult/low powered supers game (similar to Hellboy, I realise having just watched the film, but without advancing the timeline) using a combo of Hell on Earth and FCtF Modern.

My one grip is that the Commando is a little overpowered. I think John's idea in designing the class was based on teh general rule of thumb for PrCs that as they get morepowerful that you simply put up the requirements. I don't think you can follow this rule with D20M AdCs. AdCs are designed to be on a par with the basic classes, so I think that increasing the relative power of one of these and then just adjusting the requirements is not the right route to take. Overall a very good product, though.

Ben

 

[Aaron2]

I used the vehicle stats but with this caveat: for armored vehicles, I took the hardness as a "max armor" value, i.e. the best case armor thickness/angle at the thickest point and determine armor from there. I basically divide a tank or armored vehicle up by 5 "areas" (front, back, sides, rear, top, bottom) and then compute the hardness based on the armor thickness/angle for those locations (if data was available to me; if it wasnt, I took them as a simple ratio).

What formula did you use to convert mm of armor into hardness?

Do you still need info on various halftracks?


Aaron

 

[ledded]

What formula did you use to convert mm of armor into hardness?

I cant put my hands on it right now, but it was the harness for steel in d20 (10 per inch?) then plugged into a formula that gave a ratio in regards to angling effects (if any) per each tank I could get info for. I would then take a ratio depending on the small areas of 'vulnerable' stuff on that facing (things that help the tank operate that arent covered in a huge amount of steel). It wasnt exact by any means, more like an average.

It was fun, because guys could crit tanks and get descriptions like "well, you fired but it went straight for the front armor instead of the track; just before you started to curse and reload, hoping for time to get another shot before the coax MG cut you to pieces, you noticed the round detonate directly in the drivers viewportm and you think you could hear a muted scream...". But they could also get unlucky, and just rain fire on a Tiger while it strolled through a bombed out city, shrugging off most everything they threw at it (heh heh boy they hated that).

When this hurricane stuff gets over with and they get my power back on I'll be able to boot up my own computer instead of a relatives and try and find my notes on it.

Do you still need info on various halftracks?

Aaron

Sure, it wouldnt hurt to have more of it and I'd love to see what you have, we're going to do another run of my WW2-supers game sometime in the future and to be honest, I just love WW2 era halftracks.

 

[ledded]

I really like Hell on Earth. I particularly like the ability to do the non-military stuff with it, which I don't think its competitors manage.

I totally agree.

I've designed but not actually run a WWII occult/low powered supers game (similar to Hellboy, I realise having just watched the film, but without advancing the timeline) using a combo of Hell on Earth and FCtF Modern.

God, you don't know how p*ssed I was when I saw the Hellboy movie, and realized they had stolen one of my biggest scenes away right before I was about to play it . Of course, now I want to actually get the comic and read it to see what I've been missing, but I was stunned when I realized that one of my little story arcs had just about been completely and totally done by someone else without me having any knowledge of it. I'm considering revising some stuff that happenned in our game in my Story Hour just so it doesnt turn into something that looks like a Hellboy rip-off. (for pete's sake, they even used a Rasputin! Dangit! I shoulda seen that coming!)

My one grip is that the Commando is a little overpowered. I think John's idea in designing the class was based on teh general rule of thumb for PrCs that as they get morepowerful that you simply put up the requirements. I don't think you can follow this rule with D20M AdCs. AdCs are designed to be on a par with the basic classes, so I think that increasing the relative power of one of these and then just adjusting the requirements is not the right route to take. Overall a very good product, though.

Ben

Yeah, Commando was a bit overpowered, but I just took it as a slightly over-the-top commando class for PC's who were going to be waaaay in over their heads. But I like that about a WW2 campaign, you can really toss a lot of stuff at the PC's before you even get close to stretching their suspension of disbelief (just wait till my erstwhile super-GI's get to their part in the Battle of the Bulge)