Modular: simple and/or suck?

[Herschel]

Here's one of my....concerns with the new, modular approach. It could be straight forward, simple, but it could also really, REALLY suck even though it makes sense on a certain level.

We have five base classes: Fighter, Cleric, Wizard, Ranger, Rogue. Every other "class" simply becomes a dual-multiclass version of these four.

Paladin = Fighter/Cleric
Swordmage = Fighter/Wizard
Barbarian = Fighter/Ranger
Warlord = Fighter/Rogue
Warlock = Cleric/Wizard
Runepriest = Cleric/Ranger
Avenger = Cleric/Rogue
Sorcerer = Wizard/Ranger
Bard = Wizard/Rogue
Scout/Spy = Ranger/Rogue

Then for races:

Human, Elf, Dwarf, Gnome, Halfling and others would be templates (or, IMO humans in funny suits, which is a concept I HATE)

Dragonborn: Human with Dragon Template
Tielfing: Human with Demonic Template
Genasi: Human with Elemental Template
Deva: Human with Celestial Template
Eladrin: Elves with Celestial Template
Drow: Elves with Demonic Template
Half-Elves: Humans with Fey Template
Half-Orcs ; Humans with Orc/Feral Template

Is there any way these ideas would be palatable to a majority of gamers to even work?

 

[RHGreen]

It would better if it came down to:

Martial, Arcane, Divine

Primary first, Secondary second

Fighter - Martial(Defender options), Martial (Defender Options)
Paladin - Martial(Defender Options), Divine
Cleric - Divine, Martial
Rogue - Martial(Melee Striker Options), Martial(Melee Striker Options)
Ranger - Martial(Melee Striker Options), Martial(Ranged Striker Options)
Wizard - Arcane, Arcane
Gish - Martial(Defender Options), Arcane
Arcane Archer - Martial(Ranged Striker Options), Arcane
Bard - Martial(Melee Striker Options), Arcane
Warlord - Martial, Martial(Tactical Options)
Barbarian - Martial(Melee Striker Options, Primal(Rage Options)
Sorcerer - Arcane, Primal(Chaos Options)
Necromancer - Arcane, Arcane(Necrotic)
Ninja - Martial(Melee Striker), Arcane(Shadow)

Make all classes half classes, in a similar way to hybrid classes in 4E work (only good - and designed into the system from the ground up rather than a botch add-on that tries to needle its way into an air tight system). Techically everyone would be a multi-class, which is really what some of the classes are already. They are just hard-coded in that state.

It wouldn't be exactly like this, but you get the gist anyway.

Saying that, even though I like this format, I'm not sure it would be good for D&D. Especially with a percieved need to move a little away from the feel of 4E (or even 3E) - which this has a bit of. Mainly because you are less creating a character and more constructing one. Unfortunately this sort of thing moves away from the innocent fun feel and into metagame powerbuild game mastery focus feel, which can feel a little cold and hollow.

Balance between innocent simplicity, die hard gamey mechanics and how they are presented are going to be the making or breaking of 5E. In much the same way as it was (both ways - making and breaking) for 4E.

I suppose if done right it would work, but it's tricky.

 

[RHGreen]

One thing that would help with this kind of 'construction' would be to have pre-constructed character classes that are pre-built into classic classes.

You want a Fighter, you just pick the pre-built classic Fighter. Of course the class would give you the ability to pick from the options that the self constructed class would have done.

 

[DonTadow]

Keeping it simple will be the best way for this to work and balance.

When they design a module, design an ability for a level and make sure it is equevalent to every other class ability at that level in that module and compared to other classes.

For instance, say we have 3 classes warrior, priest and wizard.

Your module for warrior will consist of a barbarian, monk and vanguard.

Within these various modules are feats you choose. You may pick and choose from any of the modules under warrior. However, if i can only choose a feat per level, and a level 4 barbarian feat is equavalent to a level 4 monk feat, we shouldn't encounter problems.

Hopefully, multiclassing will be a think of the pass, because certain feats within a module would belong in other modules from other classes. For instance, if there's a heavy armor feat, that would probably be a warpriest submodule and all figher submodules.

One thing that would help with this kind of 'construction' would be to have pre-constructed character classes that are pre-built into classic classes.

You want a Fighter, you just pick the pre-built classic Fighter. Of course the class would give you the ability to pick from the options that the self constructed class would have done.

This is a neccessity, as well as a recommended character progression. Add this with someone else's suggestion for race/class choice to determine starting ability scores and you have a game you're up and playing in 10 minutes.

 

[DEFCON 1]

As Anon points out... what you basically have there is substituting Martial / Divine / Arcane / Primal with Fighter / Cleric / Wizard / Ranger. Which I certain can understand... since so many people rail against the idea of the "power source" while also always including them by just calling them Fighter / Cleric / Wizard instead.

As I've mentioned elsewhere... I think the best of both worlds is to create a large list of Exploits, Prayers, and Spells... one giant list each. Then create however many "classes" you want... each of which grants you a certain number of class abilities just like races grant you a certain number of racial abilities. Then as you level, you select Exploits, Prayers, and Spells from whatever list your class applies to in order to get more stuff to do. No more individual power lists per class... its power list by power source (without actually calling them 'powers' or 'power sources' to avoid alienating people who don't like the terminology.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Here's one of my....concerns with the new, modular approach. It could be straight forward, simple, but it could also really, REALLY suck even though it makes sense on a certain level.

We have five base classes: Fighter, Cleric, Wizard, Ranger, Rogue. Every other "class" simply becomes a dual-multiclass version of these four.

Paladin = Fighter/Cleric
Swordmage = Fighter/Wizard
Barbarian = Fighter/Ranger
Warlord = Fighter/Rogue
Warlock = Cleric/Wizard
Runepriest = Cleric/Ranger
Avenger = Cleric/Rogue
Sorcerer = Wizard/Ranger
Bard = Wizard/Rogue
Scout/Spy = Ranger/Rogue

Castles & Crusades does this and also offers a class-and-a-half option, where you just get a piece of the second class. So you can take the (no spells-included) C&C bard and add on half of the illusionist class and recreate the 3E bard almost exactly. You can do the same for the ranger and the druid or the paladin and the cleric.

Or, you can get more interesting, and have a bard with 1E flavor and give him a little bit of druid. Instead of a paladin, grab the knight class and give him a bit of cleric. That bard can have cleric spells and some abilities, etc.

Dragonborn: Human with Dragon Template
Tielfing: Human with Demonic Template
Genasi: Human with Elemental Template
Deva: Human with Celestial Template
Eladrin: Elves with Celestial Template
Drow: Elves with Demonic Template
Half-Elves: Humans with Fey Template
Half-Orcs ; Humans with Orc/Feral Template

Is there any way these ideas would be palatable to a majority of gamers to even work?

Change the word "human" to "humanoid" and it's what happened in 3E, and people were fine with it.

 

[Herschel]

Change the word "human" to "humanoid" and it's what happened in 3E, and people were fine with it.

SOME people were fine with it. I DETESTED it. I harken back to the days with Gygax waxing poetic about how you weren't just playing a 'human in a funny suit' and to myself and others that's what templates do.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

SOME people were fine with it. I DETESTED it. I harken back to the days with Gygax waxing poetic about how you weren't just playing a 'human in a funny suit' and to myself and others that's what templates do.

There are no templates in the 3E PHB. But elves were just a few bonuses and stat changes away from humans. No one was outraged that they weren't mechanically vastly different. In fact, I'd say that most players prefer it.