Modules, it turns out, apparently DO sell

[Imaro]

Ok, put it this way:

I think that there are many companies that deliver high quality material apart from Paizo.

So what is it that separates Paizo from the others?

What, in your opinion is it that Paizo is doing that no one else can match? What is it that Chaosium, Mongoose, Green Ronin, Fantasy Flight, Open Design and the rest of the very competent bunch of companies out there aren't doing?

Are you saying that only Paizo is giving people quality? That only Paizo is in tune with what their customers want?

Is quality the sole defining factor of Paizo's success?

That I don't believe for a second.

/M

When did I say only Paizo is giving people quality... are you saying no one else publishing rpg's has any business acumen? And the only thing I was defining was why they, as opposed to WotC, are able to succesfully implement a model of mostly selling adventures and fluff books... not why they as a whole are a successful business.

However I do believe quality can entail many areas within a company and few have the total overall level of quality that Paizo has... As an example, I can't think of a single company you've listed that has the same quality of interaction with their fans and customer service. This is another facet of quality that I think greatly helps their success as a business. In the end I think them being a quality company has more to do with their success than a subscription model and being in the right place at the right time... especially over the longterm. That, for me at least, is why I support their company.

 

[darjr]

Quite a few of the LFR RPGA adventures are good. Not crap. And some of those authors are no longer 'no names' because of it.

Wasn't the SWSA Dawn of Defiance adventure path written by Rodney Thompson?

 

[darjr]

I think that if a LFGS sets up the pathfinder society at their store they can get the adventures for free... I think.

I actually considered running it here locally for a while.

 

[Jasperak]

Your whole Point

Spot on in my opinion.

BTW, I must spread XP around.

 

[Maggan]

When did I say only Paizo is giving people quality...

So what is the defining difference between Paizo and the rest?

Come on, I've given my thoughts clearly and straight. So what, in your opinion is it that make Paizo so successful that they have taken the number 2 spot as the best selling RPG company?

What is it that the others aren't doing, that they should be doing?

It can't be quality, others are doing that, so it has to be something else.

As an example, I can't think of a single company you've listed that has the same quality of interaction with their fans and customer service.

Fantasy Flight. They have hands down the best customer support in the industry.

Loose a component for one of their games? They replace it.

Have a damaged collector's edition slipcase? They replaced it.

And I'm in Sweden, on another continent. I have found FFG customer service to be leagues better than Paizo's, and Paizo's is still one of the best in the business. Just not the best.

Also, Chaosium is tight with the fan base. And Open Design ... the fan base is part of the design process. Can't get much more in tune than that.

I think you are right about one thing. We're going to have to agree to disagree.

EDIT:

are you saying no one else publishing rpg's has any business acumen?

I am of the opinion that common business sense is very uncommon in the RPG business, both at many publishers and at many games stores. So if we want to polarise my viewpoint, yes there are only a few publishers with enough business acumen to build a stable and growing business out of RPGs.

/M

 

[James Jacobs]

Hey everyone... first of all, let me just say thanks for all the kind words in this thread. And that first thread, the one that pointed out how many pages of adventures and stuff we've produced over the past few years helped explain to me why I'm so tired all the time lately!

Seriously, though... adventures do sell. Paizo more or less exists as a game company today (and not merely as an online RPG store) because adventures sell. If they're done right. And by "right," I mean "fun to read."

Because I suspect that the majority of adventures published by game companies are never actually played by most of those who read the adventures.

Now, don't get me wrong. I LOVE hearing stories about how much fun folks have had playing adventures, and I'm really pleased with how robust our messageboards are with just this type of feedback, but the truth is that there are more gamers than there are gaming groups. And you don't STOP being a gamer when you're not actually playing an RPG.

So, gamers who don't currently have groups and gamers who want to enjoy their hobby on days when they're not gaming need something fun to read. And adventures, which tell stories, ARE fun to read. (If they're built to be read.)

If someone plays an adventure that Paizo publishes, I count that as MUCH as a successful adventure as if someone reads an adventure and uses an idea in his home game AND as much as someone who just reads an adventure one rainy afternoon and enjoys it.

After all... there are lots of movies and books and comics out there; reading one doesn't fill the urge to read more. The same goes for adventures.

I'm pretty confident that adventures, as long as they're fun to read, will remain popular and profitable (and yes, our adventures ARE, as a general rule, profitable—the Adventure Path line is quite profitable).

And if an adventure is fun to read, chances that the person who had fun reading it will want to share that experience by running it for his/her friends, I think, DRAMATICALLY increases. At least, that's how it works for me. If an adventure's not fun to read, has dull maps, and/or has lame art, it goes right back on the shelf and stays there.

Anyway... I gotta run! Gotta get started on the next 5,000 pages of adventures!

 

[Treebore]

Ok, put it this way:

I think that there are many companies that deliver high quality material apart from Paizo.

So what is it that separates Paizo from the others?

What, in your opinion is it that Paizo is doing that no one else can match? What is it that Chaosium, Mongoose, Green Ronin, Fantasy Flight, Open Design and the rest of the very competent bunch of companies out there aren't doing?

Are you saying that only Paizo is giving people quality? That only Paizo is in tune with what their customers want?

Is quality the sole defining factor of Paizo's success?

That I don't believe for a second.

/M

Its not the sole factor, but it is definitely the biggest with me. Like I have posted before, I do not play or run Pathfinder, and have no desire to do so, ever. So the MAIN reason I buy stuff from Paizo is that their quality of productions, and most especially, content, is the best in the business. Again, IMO, and yes, I do buy a lot of stuff from Green Ronin, Mongoose, AEG, Goodman, and a few others.

As much as I like the other companies, they come no where near to matching Paizo on several fronts. First is, once again, the top production values in combination with the content being top notch. Next is value for my money. Who else gives me free PDF's along with the print copy if I subscribe? No one else, period. Plus they give me a modest discount on the print copy, which almost pays for the shipping.

Plus who else talks to their customers on their forums anywhere as often as Paizo does? I know Mongoose, AEG, Goodman, and Green Ronin certainly do not.

There are only 3 RPG companies who get me to buy directly from them. 2 of them because they have given me free PDF's along with my print copy. 1 of those 2 is Paizo, the second is the guys who have Mongoose as their publisher and have given us Doctor Who, Qin, Wild Talents 2E, etc... Cubicle 7, who have given me free PDF's with my pre orders. The only other company I buy directly from on a extremely regular basis, like, every product they have made, is Troll Lord Games, because they give substantial discounts when you wait for their sales, which I do.

Every other company I follow, Mongoose, AEG, Green Ronin, FFG, etc... only sells to me via Amazon.

So Paizo is definitely the best of the best, in my book, at least.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I think this is again where WoTC failed in that they didn't provide a core setting that was continuously supported with a lot of printed adventurers.

Older editions had a ton of adventurers and the play experience of those helped to expand the game.

I think people want stories. Every adventure, every adventure path, and every setting sourcebook, feeds into that shared experience. The lack of variety on the WoTC side is staggering in comparission.

 

[Treebore]

I am of the opinion that common business sense is very uncommon in the RPG business, both at many publishers and at many games stores. So if we want to polarise my viewpoint, yes there are only a few publishers with enough business acumen to build a stable and growing business out of RPGs.

/M

I take it that you are not aware that across the business world, for every one business that lasts/succeeds, there are a bunch that do not? I do not remember the exact ratio, but I believe its greater than 1 to 5.

So "common business sense" is uncommon across the business community, period.

 

[Nikosandros]

Your point would be valid if the material produced was in the realm of a few hundred pages.

But 5000+ pages of material, a great website, a top notch and dedicated staff, etc...these things don't exist without cash flow.

Indeed. We might not know the numbers, but the fact that Paizo keeps churning out this amount of adventure and setting material means that they are making good profits out of it, otherwise they would alter their strategy.