(Mongoose) Babylon 5 RPG - Full Details!

[GiantInThePlayground]

Well, I would argue that leaving out some d20 details in favor of more B5-specific information actually INCREASES the value for non-d20 players. That "larger audience" consists mostly of people who are fans of the show but have no intention of ever playing the game; they are buying the books as a comprehensive reference on B5.

However, I am not at all involved in the marketing or conception of this game. The truth is, most people who are not gamers think of all roleplaying games as "D&D" anyway, so I doubt it would surprise anyone that they have to buy a D&D book to roleplay B5. Who knows, people may buy the book for B5, then decide to also try D&D. On a personal level, I think that would be good for our hobby.

 

[woodelf]

That "larger audience" consists mostly of people who are fans of the show but have no intention of ever playing the game; they are buying the books as a comprehensive reference on B5.

However, I am not at all involved in the marketing or conception of this game. The truth is, most people who are not gamers think of all roleplaying games as "D&D" anyway, so I doubt it would surprise anyone that they have to buy a D&D book to roleplay B5. Who knows, people may buy the book for B5, then decide to also try D&D. On a personal level, I think that would be good for our hobby.

I fear that far more people, however, wolud buy the book because they are fans of B5, and think in the back of their minds "and, maybe, i'll give this roleplaying thing a try one of these days"--and then not bother when they discover that they need to go buy another book, that has nothing to do with B5, just to dip their toe in the water ( so to speak).

 

[Arani Korden]

I fear that far more people, however, wolud buy the book because they are fans of B5, and think in the back of their minds "and, maybe, i'll give this roleplaying thing a try one of these days"--and then not bother when they discover that they need to go buy another book, that has nothing to do with B5, just to dip their toe in the water ( so to speak).

Given the degree of cross-pollination within the fandom community, as well as the fact that B5 has been out of the limelight for a while now and wasn't that big of a hit at its peak, I suspect that any B5 fans who are likely to become gamers will have already done so by now. I'm pretty sure thye've been exposed, and if they're not interested, they're not interested.

 

[woodelf]

Correct - the PHB is the only book you 'need' with B5. We tinker so much with such rules anyway

So in broad strokes, just how badly do you "need" another book to play B5? just for the "forbidden content"? Or are the combat rules, say, given only in terms of alterations to the "base" mechanics? In the latter case, i might just give this one a pass, even if it's well-done. Just as i did with Farscape. Well, ok, i don't think Farscape was well-done, and had it been, i might've gotten a copy. But, even then, my to-buy list for RPGs exceeds my disposable income by roughly 2 orders of magnitude, so even just falling slightly short of "great" can prevent me from buying something.

Actually, to make a specific point with Farscape, here's why i didn't buy it:
1: no non-rules content that a dedicated fan of the series wouldn't already know. Sure, it had an episode guide, descriptions of races/cultures, and descriptions of locations. But every bit of that i already knew, because i've seen every episode of Farscape (in some cases several times), and read all the official extras online.
2: Then it had a bunch of lackluster crunchy bits. Now, i'm not much of a fan of D20, but i'm perfectly willing to play a good D20 game. Farscape isn't that. It was a fairly poor use of D20, overall, with just a few gems here and there.
3: Too damn much of the content in the crunchy-bits sections. If the rules aren't stunning, i can theoretically use the setting material with the rules of my choice. But it's much more effort to convert from D20 to Fudge or Story Engine than it is to convert from prose to Fudge or Story Engine (or even CORPS, for that matter). In short, one should be able to read a setting-centric RPG without reading a single word of the mechanics, and still know just as much abou the setting. Or, put another way, the mechanical representations should be fully redundant with the narrative descriptions, rather than complementary. And this has nothing to do with my love, or lack thereof, of any particular system. With my most-favoritest system in the world, i'd still rather be able to read it without referring to the crunchy bits--i'll look at those *after* i've decided i care abou a particular bit, and want to see the mechanical side. Same complaint i have about most GURPS books (dependent on the mechanical portions to convey the data).

Back to the question of completeness, here's my situation:
I own exactly one D20 book (one of the first Slayers' Guides), and have no real intention of getting more--most just don't appeal to me. Now, i'm a pretty savvy and experienced RPer, active in online communities and familiar with lots of RPGs. I know the "forbidden basics" of D&D3E (rolling stats and leveling). And i've even played in a D&D3E game for a couple years (thus solidifying my decision not to buy any of the books, or run the game). For that matter, i've had to fill in the gaps in more than a few published RPGs over the years--unintential gaps, i might add.

So, will i be able to sit down with the B5 RPG and create characters and run a game? Or am i going to have to print out several dozen pages from the D20SRD? Or will even that be insufficient?

 

[thatdarncat]

Paul and Matt of Mongoose will be joining us for a moderated chat Wednesday March 5th. See this thread in General

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42153

 

[Ranger REG]

I suspect that any B5 fans who are likely to become gamers will have already done so by now. I'm pretty sure thye've been exposed, and if they're not interested, they're not interested.

Or perhaps they're waiting for the right vehicle to come along (i.e., the Babylon 5 Roleplaying Game). Or perhaps they're the earlier gamers of AoG's version, the standalone core rulebook format.

I agree with woodelf. They are more likely to buy it because they're B5 fans but will they make the extra trip to the FLGS or spend an extra $30 (the most affordable of Wizards' rulebooks, provided they're willing to use D&D) to complete the science fiction RPG?

People prefer everything in one package ... or at least the core rules part, including the character creation and advancement rules.

 

[Arani Korden]

Or perhaps they're waiting for the right vehicle to come along (i.e., the Babylon 5 Roleplaying Game). Or perhaps they're the earlier gamers of AoG's version, the standalone core rulebook format.

I don't believe it. Anyway, if I were producing the game, I'd target actual people who definitely buy roleplaying games rather than hypothetical people who might buy roleplaying games.

 

[Wyvern]

Luckily, Matt had already seen my wizards.com thread; safe to say, if you liked the system I described there, you'll like what Mongoose has put together here. There's a lot of parallels, though obviously this book will be much, much deeper than my surface treatment and departs from it significantly in certain areas (which is a good thing).

That's *very* cool....

Wyvern

 

[Ranger REG]

I don't believe it. Anyway, if I were producing the game, I'd target actual people who definitely buy roleplaying games rather than hypothetical people who might buy roleplaying games.

That's another good argument. So why restrict the appeal of this product to d20 gamers (aka owners of Wizarsd' core rulebook), when you can appeal the product to the entire RPG community?

I've heard many gamers who do not play d20 that they would like to buy B5 but have reservation about buying the Player's Handbook in order to complete the game.

For us owners of a Wizards core rulebook, it is just $30 but for a a gamer outside the d20 community, they have to pay at least $60 to have the complete B5 core ruleset.

Even among the owners of Wizards's core rulebook, you cannot guarantee that every owner of the D&D Player's Handbook are going to pick up B5. In fact, not ALL PH owners trust third-party products, and I use the PH because it is $10 less than the other Wizards' core rulebooks.

You want to get roleplayers to be interested in a B5 then tap into the entire RPG community, and give them one core package to play the game, whether they are d20 gamers or non-d20 gamers.

 

[Blacksad]

That's another good argument. So why restrict the appeal of this product to d20 gamers (aka owners of Wizarsd' core rulebook), when you can appeal the product to the entire RPG community?

Because, appart from MnM, most OGL book departs so much from d20, that d20 gamers don't want to touch them, and considering that actually d20 gamer represent 60% of the market, that it took time to educate them to know what d20 is (through articles in polyhedron, ads in dragon), so it wouldn't be suitable to make it OGL, especially considering that most are puzzled to understand that Godlike or Everquest are d20 (if they know that those game are even remotly d20 related).

I've heard many gamers who do not play d20 that they would like to buy B5 but have reservation about buying the Player's Handbook in order to complete the game.

oh, and most obvious reason, because the two other Babylon 5 RPG, aimed at the larger audience were flop, while most product from a good d20 publisher sell well, meaning that it isn't worthwhile to try to convert fans into gamers, while it is worthwhile to appeal to the d20 crowd.