(Mongoose) OGL CyberNet Preview

[JoeGKushner]

First Typo?

While looking under the Gunslinger, "The following information pertains to the Master Thief advanced class." Typo or mix up in preview?

 

[arkham618]

Hi guys,

Your comments have been heard and understood - have a try with this second preview instead

Sigh. I hate to pan a product before it's even released, but this preview is more discouraging than the first. Mongoose, I'm sorry, but you guys have fallen into the same trap as Cyberpunk 2020 and Shadowrun: you've boiled down the genre into some contemporary gangster fantasy. Fast cars, big guns, hot women, cool drugs -- all flash and attitude, with very little of the alienation and struggle that makes the genre engaging. (I mean, honestly, do we need an entire chapter just on narcotics?) Cyberpunk is future noir: think "hard-boiled" detective fiction, not glitzy action movie.

And this should be reflected in the layout and graphic design. The color scheme is all wrong: cyberpunk, as I said, is noir, stark, all contrast, lots of shadow. Not pastel greens and grays and illustrations that look like they were colored with greasepens. And the border is disturbing too: the big freaky eye staring at you from the corner of the page belongs in Horror, not CyberNet. Also, that neutral header font is bland, bland, bland, and having the "l"s look like "I"s throughout the book is going to wear on a lot of people's nerves. The art is cartoonish, as I believe I already mentioned, and falls into that same "flash and attitude" trap while managing to convey very little of the cynicism and tragic style of the genre. Please, Mongoose, if you're going to tackle cyberpunk, take the time to really study the genre and do it justice. I'd rather the book be delayed a few months for a major overhaul than see it published as is. Because from what I can see in these previews, I will not be preordering this book and most likely won't even bother giving it a flip-through on the next trip to my FLGS.

 

[jaerdaph]

I'm not a big cyberpunk fan, but I think this looks kind of cool, Matt. I also like the open game sourcebook concept, and I hope it is successful.

You mentioned previously that you would be doing something similar for modern horror roleplaying. Any info you can share about that yet?

 

[Razuur]

Wow, this seems to have turned into a Mongoose bash.

(The sound of sabers rattling and bugles blaring)

Seriously though, most of the complaints I have seen have been purely subjective points. Something may be your up of tea, it may not.

I willbe the first to admit that I do not like all of Mongooses products. But that is a subjective call. The Slayers Guides do not hook me up. But I know a guy who has them ALL. They hook him up. I like the quintissential books, and I know someone who doesn't. I think that the Bab 5 game is outstanding, and most people I know who have it or have looked/played it agree. All of this is cup of tea.

I personally don't know that much about Cyberpunk. The prreview are interesting enough for me to take a look at it when it hits the game shop. Sounds like they succeeded. It amazes me that people are already trashing this whole product by claiming it isn't accurate, without the product even being out! Check it out first.

A2089. You may have thought it was nothing. I thought it was great. I loved the system, the mechanics, and a lot of the art. Did I like all the art? No. The meks were beautiful. The mechanics sound. The concept great. I am proud to have this in my collection. As with everything, check it out yourself.

Errata. Hmmm. Yes they haven't provided boats of errata for all their products, but they put out a lot. They have put out great errata. For example, the Interceptor rules for B5 were accidentally omitted form the core book. They showed up on the site the day after the book hit my game shop.

Downloads. Mongoose has given us free rules, even tested rules for B5 with us. I don't know of many companies that do that. They have provided superior support for B5, and are a constant presence on their boards and here at EN world.

And Cergorach, you have made it clear on this thread and others here at EN World, that you have a lower opinion of Mongoose. That is fine. There are companies that I don't like to. But your criticisms are not constructed, and frequently aim simply to tear down the company. If their product line and size is so large, they must be doing something right, and someone must like their products.

Is Mongoose perfect, no. Are any of the companies? No (Well maybe GR comes close). But they have put out some damn good stuff, and only seem to be improving. The B5 line is a dream line to me. And A2089 is great. I can't wait for Conan. I wouldn't have even considered Conan if I wasn't so impressed by some of Mongooses products.

I plan to check out Cyberpunk like I do every other Mongoose product, by giving them the benefit of the doubt. They have definitely earned a looksee from me.

Razuur

 

[arkham618]

Seriously though, most of the complaints I have seen have been purely subjective points. Something may be your up of tea, it may not.

So what? Human beings can't help but be subjective; it's called perspective. If the product appears so subjectively bad to enough people, though, that few copies of the book sell, then the enthusiasm of its few fans won't amount to anything. Simple economics will preclude either reprints or supplements, and Mongoose's experiment will fail. I've been looking forward to this product for some time, and now that I've seen the quality of some of its contents, I'm sorely disappointed.

I personally don't know that much about Cyberpunk. The prreview are interesting enough for me to take a look at it when it hits the game shop. Sounds like they succeeded. It amazes me that people are already trashing this whole product by claiming it isn't accurate, without the product even being out! Check it out first.

If the previews are meant to be indicative of the entire book, then there are some serious flaws that need addressing. I'm not usually inclined to trash a product before it's released, but with the book not yet on the shelves, there may still be time for Mongoose to rethink their presentation. Believe it or not, I want CyberNet to succeed and spawn a lot of derivative products, but I don't think it will from what I've seen. I will therefore criticize now instead of later, when it will be too late.

 

[Razuur]

You are TOTALLY entitled to you opinions. i just proposed counter opinions.

I thought that it looked pretty good myslef.

I am not enough of an expert on the Industry to determine what will or will not fail, myslef.

Either way, it looked cool to me and I'll check it out and make my call upon perusal.

Razuur

 

[Cergorach]

@Razur:
Well, my mommy always thought me to be honest...

Sure MGP had some of the first D20 products out and made sure that there was a lot of it, back in those days the quality they produced was acceptable. My problem is that other game companies grew far more rapidly than than MGP, i'm not talking about size, but about quality. Ask some of the reviewers on Enworld, MGP is one of the few big publishers that still regulary feature artwork that's just plain bad. Do note that "bad" in this case isn't an opinion, it's an evaluation of the art (style, etc.).

It's maybe a question of standards. MGP has here a rating of Average. The SpyCraft range has a Good rating. Green Ronin, Fiery Dragon, Malhavoc, Necromancer, and Privateer are all examples of publishers that rate overall Good with the reviewers here. They don't publish 'perfect' products, but very good, the standard that all publishers should follow... There are of course publishers that also rate Average who i find should also belong to the Good category, that's personal opinion. Take a look at the MPG reviews, the biggest problem they all write is that the art ain't up to spec. Rules blandness could be a considered a good thing (not much complexity, everything already familiar), thus that i perceive it as a bad thing might be a personal opinion.

MGP has of course made some good stuff, Slaine for example was very good, it didn't really represent their art work, because the comic artwork was reused. Babylon 5 i can't comment on, haven't read through it yet and the previews where decent enough.

Now, another pet peef of mine, designation of OGL material. Have you read those designations made by MGP? They are extremely unclear. They do state that if things are unclear you should contact them through e-mail, but they just never respond...

Some migh say that they do sell a lot, so they must be good. Well, crack is also still big business, and that stuff is poison...

 

[Mongoose_Matt]

@Razur:

Now, another pet peef of mine, designation of OGL material. Have you read those designations made by MGP? They are extremely unclear. They do state that if things are unclear you should contact them through e-mail, but they just never respond...

Woah, hold it there I have _never_ ignored any query regarding OGC and, as I am sure somebody will testify, I usually let people use far more than just the OGC in our books. If you (or anyone else for that matter) ever has any problem with OGC or wishes to use any of our content, please give me a shout at msprange@mongoosepublishing.com. I answer everyone in this regard, whether they are a large publisher or just a fan putting a web site together.

 

[Cergorach]

Woah, hold it there I have _never_ ignored any query regarding OGC and, as I am sure somebody will testify, I usually let people use far more than just the OGC in our books. If you (or anyone else for that matter) ever has any problem with OGC or wishes to use any of our content, please give me a shout at msprange@mongoosepublishing.com. I answer everyone in this regard, whether they are a large publisher or just a fan putting a web site together.

Matthew, your very kewl about all your communications, i'll e-mail you with all my MGP OGC questions in the future. You might want to slap the person who's monitoring info@mongoosepublishing.com silly.

One thing i'll have to give Matthew credit for is that the man is fast! First in responding to the preview with another (more appropriate) preview. Second with this OGC business.

Nice Matt, very nice!

 

[Blacksad]

The second preview is better.

I wanted to second the l and I problem, you should choose another font for the titles, and my opinion on the eye in the border is that it perfectly fit the genre (minority report and blade runner). The art is ok in the second preview but bland in the first one IMO.