[Mongoose] SKRAAG: City of the Orcs

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

Mongoose's first city book, Skraag: City of the Orcs, was eagerly awaited by my group, as we were in the middle of an all-orc campaign when the product was announced. But then we got the book, and it was a huge disappointment.

Calling it a city supplement is a joke, really, as the map is nothing more than a bare-bones (and crudely drawn, to boot!) village and much space is wasted on an uninteresting history and religion that, IMO, should have been devoted to actual locations and NPCs to truly make the place useful to DMs as an adventure and shopping destination. Instead, the book reads more like the "Slayer's Guide to Orcs" than a proper adventuring locale. The history and religion sections only interfere with the setting's alleged "plug and play" portability. We needed less info on things like history and religion (best left to the DM) and more info on where to go, what to buy and who to meet.

Skraag: City of the Orcs was $14.95 completely wasted in our opinion (as was the money spent on the Slayer's Guides to Hobgoblins, our first and last Slayer's Guide purchase, which gave us barely anything of use outside of the two banner spells). Stormhaven, a floating city, is to be the next release in Mongoose's "Cities of Fantasy" series, and we are less than enthused after reading Skraag. We were hoping for so much more from this series, expecting less fanciful and more portable, detailed locations like Geanavue, Lankhmar, etc.

Regarding other Mongoose products, we have really been enjoying the Quintessential handbooks so far (d20 fan fave Mike Mearls in particular did a nice job on the Rogue book). Were we at all interested in naval warfare, we would most certainly pick up the excellent Seas of Blood over FFG's comparatively weaker Seafarer's Handbook. Mongoose's product line thus far is a mixed-bag of good crunchy bits and bad fluff. Hopefully, we will see less fluff and more crunch in future products. We are not so much concerned with the Quintessential series (shaping up nicely), as much as nearly everything else in the pipeline... Naturally, we'll still give everything a fair look, but methinks Mongoose's haste to ensure quantity is causing a lack of quality that can only hurt the company's reputation with d20 gamers in the future. It's already hurt it with us.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Mongoose's first city book, Skraag: City of the Orcs...was a huge disappointment.

Who was the author?

Naturally, we'll still give everything a fair look, but methinks Mongoose's haste to ensure quantity is causing a lack of quality that can only hurt the company's reputation with d20 gamers in the future. It's already hurt it with us.

That is my concern as well. Although I wasn't as disappointed in the slayer series as you seem to be (art notwithstanding), I didn't care for TQF and it has frightened me off TQR. Since I play a fighter-rogue, I'm in a bit of a muddle.

I think a happy medium for me will be to carefully watch who the author is on any given Mongoose project. I think quality would obviously suffer if it was the same author cranking out 2-3 products a month, but an aggressive release schedule in and of itself shouldn't impact the quality. Basically I think Mongoose is definitely one of the publishers where the author behind the work is the real telling point for quality.

Wulf

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

Wil Upchurch wrote Skraag. Never heard of him.

Mike Mearls wrote The Quintessential Rogue. Take a look at it; to me, it is far more useful and fun than Song & Silence or Traps & Treachery. Mearls might not be perfect (who is?), but he damn sure tries hard and always gives you at least something you can use and enjoy. TQR is superior to TQF. I hope The Quintessential Cleric book will improve upon the format even further...

**fingers crossed**

 

[JoeGKushner]

I guess I'm coming at it from a somewhat different angle. While I haven't enjoyed most of the Slayer's Guides, being too lite on detail and crunchy bits, I have njoyed the Q books. Rogue more than fighter. I've had mixed feelings about their Encylopedia series as the characters can gain vast powers but usualy at a pretty terrible price. For Skraag, I found it satisfying. I don't know if it's because I just got Gaming Frontiers #2 and am going to use the Skeleton Crew orcs in there with Skraag, or because Moongoose has several prestige classes in Skraag that draw upon previously released material including Necromancer and Demonology. Heck, I was very pleased with the fact that there was a specific deity named, as well as a few others.

Is Skraag light on maps? Yes. Is it a little light on some important details? Once again, yes. Is it something I'll be able to plug into my campaign and tortue the players with? Yup.

 

[Arcane Runes Press]

Stormhaven, a floating city, is to be the next release in Mongoose's "Cities of Fantasy" series, and we are less than enthused after reading Skraag. We were hoping for so much more from this series, expecting less fanciful and more portable, detailed locations like Geanavue, Lankhmar, etc.

Howdy:

I wrote Stormhaven for Mongoose. Give it a fair shake. It has 65-70 can't remember the exact number) locations and lots of sketched out and fully detailed NPCs. It's a HUGE city and I stuffed its 64 pages as full of cool stuff as is humanly possible.

I don't know what I'm allowed to say about it, so I won't give away any specifics, but inside you'll find:

Lots of decay, both physical and moral.

NPCs from a wide variety of races.

A freewheeling, anything goes morality.

Class and interspieces conflict.

Adventure hooks for many of the locations and NPCs

Elements of Rome, Venice, late medieval London and a permanent fleet of ships/homes similar in feel to the junk fleet in Hong Kong's harbor.

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

I'll be sure and give it a fair shake. It's my enthusiasm for Mongoose's Cities of Fantasy series that was dimmed by Skraag, not necessarily your book in particular. My complaint is in regards to the format of the series (weird cities in weird locations not always easily adapted to a typical campaign).

If you have jam-packed Stormhaven full of crunchy goodness as you say (and it has a better, more detailed map than Skraag!), then it will probably be a must-buy (I collect city supplements whenever possible), particularly if one can simply relocate Stormhaven to another setting without too much difficulty... Either set it as an island city (not floating/mobile), or a coastal (again, non-mobile) one. You wrote it, so please tell me how hard you think it would be to do so with it, and if that information is included in the actual book itself. Thanks!

 

[Arcane Runes Press]

If you have jam-packed Stormhaven full of crunchy goodness as you say (and it has a better, more detailed map than Skraag!), then it will probably be a must-buy (I collect city supplements whenever possible), particularly if one can simply relocate Stormhaven to another setting without too much difficulty... Either set it as an island city (not floating/mobile), or a coastal (again, non-mobile) one. You wrote it, so please tell me how hard you think it would be to do so with it, and if that information is included in the actual book itself. Thanks!

I can't say about the map. I did a map that I sent in with the manuscript but I guarantee you that you won't see it in the book itself. For which I am very grateful

I wrote Stormhaven intending that it be as campaign independant as possible. As it stands, Stormhaven is in the middle of "The Sea". Exactly what and where that sea is is entirely up to the campaign and the GM. It could be coastal, but honestly, it is more intended to sit out at least a fair bit from shore. Think of it in construction as similar to an ocean oil derrick, with 4 big rune covered pylons rammed into the ocean floor.

 

[Nightfall]

Well since you're unhappy with Skraag, any chance you'll give Bluffside a try then? From what I've read, there's a number of HAPPY people with that.

(No offense to the wonderful Mongoose, for whom I'm glad they did such GOOD work with Necromancy and Wild Sorcery. )

 

[Mongoose_Matt]

Hi guys,

No offence taken - not all our books are for every gamer, by any means. For example, the Slayer's Guides have come under some fire for their weight of source vs. rules material (as we knew they would when we started writing the Slayer's Guide to Hobbers). But until the Quintessential series came along, they were our most popular brand - a lot of people do like them

It really is horses for courses - we intentionally make each series a little bit different from the rest. The Quintessential books, for example, are all crunchy bits, the Slayer's Guides concentrate on source material, while the Encyclopaedia Arcane books are somewhere in-between. Different gamers like different books - I am not entirely certain there is anyone out there who thinks every series we do is wonderful This is fine - we try to cover different ground with each series.

As for The Cities, they will be more like the Slayer's Guides, in many respects, than the Quintessential books. This will work for some gamers but not for others. This is fine too - we will never be able to please everyone with every book

In the end, make your own mind up about each of our series - oh, and be sure to look for EA: Copnstructs, possibly the best EA book yet

 

[tensen]

Wil Upchurch wrote Skraag. Barring a miracle, I won't be buying anymore books with his name on it, that's for sure.

I may be biased...but Wil has done work for Dark Quest, and his material for us was fantastic. He also has been keeping his bosses busy with Dragonstar adventures, from what the rants seem to say. So even if you disliked that product, I don't think you should necessarily discount any of his work. Even widely best selling novel publishers have a bad book or two in their list of published credits.

*Note* I haven't read Skraag so I can't comment one way or the other.