Monk and Quaterstaff - Please Help

[Ranger REG]

Unless I am mistaken, TWF and Flurry of Blows do not stack, regardless if you're using two special monk weapons (or unarmed attack and a special monk weapon).

IOW, you do NOT get two extra attacks: one from FoB, the other from TWF.

You take the better of the two. In the monk's case, it's Flurry of Blows (one extra attack at the expense of -2 penalty to all attack, full Str bonus to damage apply to all attacks).

 

[Creeperman]

Unless I am mistaken, TWF and Flurry of Blows do not stack, regardless if you're using two special monk weapons (or unarmed attack and a special monk weapon).

IOW, you do NOT get two extra attacks: one from FoB, the other from TWF.

You take the better of the two. In the monk's case, it's Flurry of Blows (one extra attack at the expense of -2 penalty to all attack, full Str bonus to damage apply to all attacks).

You are correct. Flurry of Blows is an improved version of two-weapon fighting, and in fact the SRD description states "Making an off-hand attack makes no sense for a monk striking unarmed," which implies that it is not allowed to use both abilities at once.

Thus, I'd still be inclined to allow a Flurry with a quarterstaff, both because it fits the modus operandi of the class so well (aka, "cool factor"), and because it isn't at all broken, unless you make a practice of handing out +5 weapons to low-level characters, in which case you probably asked for it.

 

[Snoweel]

Okay, so using the quarterstaff as a two-handed monk weapon, as opposed to a double-ended weapon is more efficient, right?

And then we can just assume that the monk is doing a Darth Maul with his quarterstaff for coolness' sake (because isn't a monk with a quarterstaff cooler than any other monk?)

I can't believe they left quarterstaff out of the monk weapons list.

One last thing, are you guys in agreement yet as to whether or not my monk-with-house-ruled-quaterstaff gets STR bonus*1.5 with flurry of blows or just plain old STR bonus?

Thanks.

 

[noretoc]

I would work it completley different. I would allow the monk to use the staff using his unarmed number of attacks. Each attack does normal str bonus damage. He could also flurry, gaining an extra attack but taking the -2 on all, again doing normal str damage. The reason is if you have house rules it as a monk weapon, it should like his unarmed attacks. He can make an attack with either end, just like he could attack with either hand or foot. If fact I would allow a first lvl monk with a staff to whack once with a staff, and kick once(if he was using flurry of blows.) If he used the staff two handed for the extra str bonus, then I would say he was not using it in according to his monk fighting stlye, and say that he had to use his armed attack bonus, and number of attacks. (thus getting the str X1.5). If the monk used the quaterstaff as a double weapon, instead of a monk weapon (assuming the same rule above, it being a monk weapon) would be just silly, as he would have to account for using two weapons.

 

[Christian]

For the record, here's how my DM handles it (the same as Creeperman, as far as I can tell):

The staff can be used either as a two-handed weapon (normal attack progression, 1d6 + 1.5*Str bonus), or as a monk weapon (monk attack progression + flurry allowed, 1d6 + Str bonus with each attack). So far, this hasn't seemed to cause any problems.

Oh, and one thing, Creeperman-you may need to define 'low-level' and 'highly magical' on your comment ... My fifth-level monk usually uses his +1 quarterstaff rather than attacking unarmed. The 1d6+1 is equal, on average, to his 1d8 unarmed damage, and he gets a +1 attack bonus and the ability to hurt creatures with damage reduction as well. It won't be until eighth level that he'll usually have a decision to make (higher damage from unarmed vs. better attack roll with the staff-or does this opponent have DR?). At the moment, the staff is clearly superior ...

 

[Ranger REG]

Okay, so using the quarterstaff as a two-handed monk weapon, as opposed to a double-ended weapon is more efficient, right?

In the hands of a monk, yes. Instead of using the double weapon's two-weapon fighting ability, apply the Flurry of Blows to one end of the quarterstaff.

And then we can just assume that the monk is doing a Darth Maul with his quarterstaff for coolness' sake (because isn't a monk with a quarterstaff cooler than any other monk?)

Why not? The combat itself is abstract, but you would add entertainment by describing your actions.

I can't believe they left quarterstaff out of the monk weapons list.

Hmm. It is probably because the game designers in the beginning do not want to add this confusion we are already discussing right now.

Apparently, they approve the new modification for the Oriental Adventures monk class.

One last thing, are you guys in agreement yet as to whether or not my monk-with-house-ruled-quaterstaff gets STR bonus*1.5 with flurry of blows or just plain old STR bonus?

I can only tell what I am leaning toward, which is this: If you are using just one end of a Large quarterstaff, then treat it as a two-handed weapon and apply the x1.5 Str bonus to all attacks, including the Flurry of Blows' extra attack (should it successful hit).

In the end, it's totally up to you. Playtest it before you decide to officially implement the house rule into your campaign.

 

[Creeperman]

One last thing, are you guys in agreement yet as to whether or not my monk-with-house-ruled-quaterstaff gets STR bonus*1.5 with flurry of blows or just plain old STR bonus?

No, you get only your normal Strength bonus if you use Flurry of Blows for the extra attack. If you only take your regular number of attacks, then you may add 150% of your Strength bonus for a two-handed weapon.

IE, a level 8 Monk with STR 14 (+2), a quarterstaff, and the feat Lightning Fists (from Sword and Fist) would have the choice of the following:

• Unarmed: +8/+5 for 1d8+2/1d8+2, or
• Unarmed Flurry of Blows: +6/+6/+3 for 1d8+2/1d8+2/1d8+2, or
• Unarmed Lightning Fists: +3/+3/+3/+0 for 1d8+2/1d8+2/1d8+2/1d8+2, or
• Quarterstaff: +8/+5 for 1d6+3/1d6+3, or
• Quarterstaff Flurry of Blows: +6/+6/+3 for 1d6+2/1d6+2/1d6+2, or
• Quarterstaff Lightning Fists: +3/+3/+3/+0 for 1d6+2/1d6+2/1d6+2/1d6+2.

Clear as mud yet?

 

[Artoomis]

Let's look at the relevant rule, shall we?

Assuming Quarterstaff = Special Monk Weapon.

Flurry of Blows: The monk may make one extra attack in a round at her highest base attack, but this attack and each other attack made that round suffer a –2 penalty apiece. ... A monk may also use the flurry of blows if armed with a special monk weapon (kama, nunchaku, or siangham). ... If armed with two such weapons, she uses one for the regular attack (or attacks) and the other for the extra attack. In any case, her damage bonus on the attack with her off hand is not reduced.

1. The "off-hand" damage penalty does not apply with Flurry of Blows. If using both ends of the staff, the monk would normally "Flurry," getting one extra attack, -2 to all attacks and no special damage modifier.

2. If using the quarterstaff WITHOUT Flurry of Blows, there is no special rule, so the 1.5 str bonus damage rule for two-handed weapon use would apply.

3. I suppose you could forgo "Flurry" and use normal TWF rules, but the off-hand penalties are rather severe, including .5 str bonus damage from the off-hand. This would be silly in the extreme.

4. Since the Quarterstaff must be used with two hands, the monk CANNOT, while using the quarterstaff, choose to use BOTH the quarterstaff AND an unarmed attack (per the "Flurry" rules). She could, of course, simply hold the staff in one hand and use normal unarmed attacks instead.

I don't know - it seems pretty simple to me. Am I missing something?

 

[noretoc]

quote by artoomis
--4. Since the Quarterstaff must be used with two hands, the monk CANNOT, while using the quarterstaff, choose to use BOTH the quarterstaff AND an unarmed attack (per the "Flurry" rules). She could, of course, simply hold the staff in one hand and use normal unarmed attacks instead. --

I think you are missing something. A monk dosen't only have to use his hands. He may use his feet, elbow, knee, etc. This is why I would allow a strike with the staff and a kick if using flurry of blows (at 1st level)
While he could do it, I would not let him go past the maximum amount of attacks he would normally get. No two attacks with staff, and a kick, for ex.

 

[Artoomis]

quote by artoomis
--4. Since the Quarterstaff must be used with two hands, the monk CANNOT, while using the quarterstaff, choose to use BOTH the quarterstaff AND an unarmed attack (per the "Flurry" rules). She could, of course, simply hold the staff in one hand and use normal unarmed attacks instead. --

I think you are missing something. A monk dosen't only have to use his hands. He may use his feet, elbow, knee, etc. This is why I would allow a strike with the staff and a kick if using flurry of blows (at 1st level)
While he could do it, I would not let him go past the maximum amount of attacks he would normally get. No two attacks with staff, and a kick, for ex.

No, sir, it is you who missed something. When using Flurry of Blows, a monk may NOT use kicks, etc. if she has a weapon in both hands. A quarterstaff is a weapon in each hand. end of story.

I know this seems to disagree with other monk descriptive text, but this is the rule for Flurry of Blows.

...If armed with two such weapons, she uses one for the regular attack (or attacks) and the other for the extra attack. ..

A quarterstaff would always count as two of the monk's special weapons because it takes both hands to use it AND it is two-ended, so it counts as two weapons.