Monk Flurry and Returning Weapon

[Herobizkit]

Simple question...

Could a Monk with a +1 returning shuriken use his Flurry of Blows to throw it twice (or more) a round?

 

[kitcik]

I believe the RAW, hate on monks as usual, answer is "no" because shurikens count as ammunition and can't have the returning property.

However, any sane DM would allow it.

 

[xigbar]

No, but I'd allow. And yes, if you use a Chakram instead.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

No, but only because the returning property specifically says that it comes back to you the start of your NEXT turn. Which sucks, I wish it just worked instantly. But I guess that's what Bloodstorm Blade is for.

 

[Dandu]

Monks can throw returning handaxes. Which are monk weapons.

 

[domino]

Monks can throw returning handaxes. Which are monk weapons.

They can throw them, but just once per axe per turn.

This special ability can only be placed on a weapon that can be thrown. A returning weapon flies through the air back to the creature that threw it. It returns to the thrower just before the creature’s next turn (and is therefore ready to use again in that turn).

So to flurry with throwing returning shuriken, you need as many shuriken as you have flurry attacks.

However, since they count as ammunition for what happens when they are thrown, and

Generally speaking, ammunition that hits its target is destroyed or rendered useless, while normal ammunition that misses has a 50% chance of being destroyed or lost.

you might lose them.

It says that normal ammuniton that misses has a 50% chance of being destroyed but magical ammunition is obviously not normal, it may be exempt from that.

 

[Greenfield]

Magical ammunition is destroyed.

Except...


There's that wonderful word, "Generally" in there. It leaves room for exceptions, and Shuriken would seem like a good candidate for that exception.

 

[kitcik]

They can throw them, but just once per axe per turn.

Because they are NOT special monk weapons.

So to flurry with throwing returning shuriken, you need as many shuriken as you have flurry attacks.

Agreed but see below.

However, since they count as ammunition for what happens when they are thrown, and you might lose them.

It says that normal ammuniton that misses has a 50% chance of being destroyed but magical ammunition is obviously not normal, it may be exempt from that.

I do not think ammunition counts as a weapon. Therefore, I don't think they can have the "returning" property under RAW. Even though this is dumb IMHO. To be clearer, the returning property may only be applied to a throwing weapon. The brilliant energy property, for example, can be applied to a melee weapon, a thrown weapon or ammunition. If the returning property could be applied to ammunition, that would be included in the list of eligible weapons.

 

[domino]

Shuriken are not ammunition though.

Although they are thrown weapons, shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them, crafting masterwork or otherwise special versions of them and what happens to them after they are thrown.

It say they're thrown weapons, so I'd say that they can be returning. They'd just be expensive returning weapons that may or may not get destroyed when used. Fortunately, I'm pretty sure (but don't remember for sure) that magical ammo is cheaper than a magical weapon (but you can reuse the magical weapon)

Though I suppose "treated as ammunition" could preclude them from getting the returning enhancement, but as "weapons that can be thrown" I'd say it's doable. Still wouldn't be able to flurry with one, of course.

Unfortunately;

Magic Ammunition and Breakage

When a magic arrow, crossbow bolt, shuriken, or sling bullet misses its target, there is a 50% chance it breaks or otherwise is rendered useless. A magic arrow, bolt, bullet, or shuriken that hits is destroyed.

 

[Herobizkit]

So in short, yes, and it's expensive and dumb to even try.

How about +1 returning sai (assuming you have a pair or three)?