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General Tabletop Discussion
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Monk proposed "Refocus" class feature
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<blockquote data-quote="Esker" data-source="post: 7858923" data-attributes="member: 6966824"><p>At low levels they are in between a sustained class (like the rogue) and a true nova class (like the paladin), since they have short-rest resources that give them the ability to do damage in "mini-bursts" reasonably frequently, but not all the time. At 3rd level, using flurry of blows they can do three attacks a round three times per short rest for something like 2d4+1d8+9, averaging about 18.5 on hits. On those turns at that level, that's competitive to what a GWF paladin (w/o feats) can do with a smite (2d6(reroll 1s and 2s)+2d8+3, or about 20), and they can do it three times per short rest instead of three times per long rest. When not flurrying but still making a BA attack, they are doing 1d8+1d4+6, or about 13 on hits, which is comparable to a (non-TWF) melee rogue's at-will damage at that level, of 1d8+2d6+3, or 14.5 on hits. So at 3rd level, their damage potential (w/o feats) is top notch (though the rogue both benefits more from, and has more ways to get, either advantage or another chance to-hit to get all of that damage).</p><p></p><p>Problem is, (1) to get that damage output they have foregone the paladin's armor, hitpoints, and lay on hands, and the rogue's cunning action (they get their own weaker version of this, but they're using their bonus action already) -- and so they're going to be more fragile -- and (2) they don't benefit much from the main damage feats at those levels, namely PAM (which is great for Paladins) and Crossbow Expert (which is great for rogues).</p><p></p><p>As these characters level, the rogue is getting a steady increase in their at-will damage, along with some very nice damage avoidance features; the paladin is getting more and bigger smites (and one more attack); and the monk is getting one more attack, the ability to flurry more often, and a mix of some control and damage avoidance things. </p><p></p><p>The rogue and the paladin both end up nearly at the monk's flurry damage with their at-will attacks: at level 11, a rogue who has picked up booming blade (with their bonus feat, e.g., or by being an elf or arcane trickster) is doing 3d8+6d6+5, or 30 damage on hits (without their bonus action); the paladin is doing 4d8+10 at will (28), whereas the monk <em>with</em> flurry is only doing 2d8+2d4+20, about 34... but the rogue has better defenses (cunning action disengage and uncanny dodge) and the paladin is just getting started with damage, and <em>also</em> has better defenses. The monk gets some situational defenses against charms, disease, etc., but the paladin had most of that long before.</p><p></p><p>Mostly what the monk is getting is mobility (nice, but less so if you can't disengage) and stunning strike (open hand gets some nice control options too), which is a great ability, but goes quick.</p><p></p><p>Here's a thought; if you want to promote more creative monk play without giving a feature that will just be used for moar flurriez, just let Flurry of Blows be part of the attack action, on turns when you have not used your martial arts bonus action attack; thereby keeping your BA free to do other cool stuff. Everything still costs ki as normal, but you can flurry and step of the wind in the same turn if you spend the ki for it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Esker, post: 7858923, member: 6966824"] At low levels they are in between a sustained class (like the rogue) and a true nova class (like the paladin), since they have short-rest resources that give them the ability to do damage in "mini-bursts" reasonably frequently, but not all the time. At 3rd level, using flurry of blows they can do three attacks a round three times per short rest for something like 2d4+1d8+9, averaging about 18.5 on hits. On those turns at that level, that's competitive to what a GWF paladin (w/o feats) can do with a smite (2d6(reroll 1s and 2s)+2d8+3, or about 20), and they can do it three times per short rest instead of three times per long rest. When not flurrying but still making a BA attack, they are doing 1d8+1d4+6, or about 13 on hits, which is comparable to a (non-TWF) melee rogue's at-will damage at that level, of 1d8+2d6+3, or 14.5 on hits. So at 3rd level, their damage potential (w/o feats) is top notch (though the rogue both benefits more from, and has more ways to get, either advantage or another chance to-hit to get all of that damage). Problem is, (1) to get that damage output they have foregone the paladin's armor, hitpoints, and lay on hands, and the rogue's cunning action (they get their own weaker version of this, but they're using their bonus action already) -- and so they're going to be more fragile -- and (2) they don't benefit much from the main damage feats at those levels, namely PAM (which is great for Paladins) and Crossbow Expert (which is great for rogues). As these characters level, the rogue is getting a steady increase in their at-will damage, along with some very nice damage avoidance features; the paladin is getting more and bigger smites (and one more attack); and the monk is getting one more attack, the ability to flurry more often, and a mix of some control and damage avoidance things. The rogue and the paladin both end up nearly at the monk's flurry damage with their at-will attacks: at level 11, a rogue who has picked up booming blade (with their bonus feat, e.g., or by being an elf or arcane trickster) is doing 3d8+6d6+5, or 30 damage on hits (without their bonus action); the paladin is doing 4d8+10 at will (28), whereas the monk [I]with[/I] flurry is only doing 2d8+2d4+20, about 34... but the rogue has better defenses (cunning action disengage and uncanny dodge) and the paladin is just getting started with damage, and [I]also[/I] has better defenses. The monk gets some situational defenses against charms, disease, etc., but the paladin had most of that long before. Mostly what the monk is getting is mobility (nice, but less so if you can't disengage) and stunning strike (open hand gets some nice control options too), which is a great ability, but goes quick. Here's a thought; if you want to promote more creative monk play without giving a feature that will just be used for moar flurriez, just let Flurry of Blows be part of the attack action, on turns when you have not used your martial arts bonus action attack; thereby keeping your BA free to do other cool stuff. Everything still costs ki as normal, but you can flurry and step of the wind in the same turn if you spend the ki for it. [/QUOTE]
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