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<blockquote data-quote="eamon" data-source="post: 4022538" data-attributes="member: 51942"><p>The monk's tactics don't work well, regardless.</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">First of all, you issues with bigger creatures, which just don't care about your 10ft reach. Not that reach isn't any good - but a good portion of creatures won't care much.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Secondly, if the monk has the choice of positioning himself, he can place himself adjacent to the opponent, (within 5ft reach), or within 10ft, or within 15ft and beyond.</li> </ul><p></p><p></p><p>When it comes to positioning, in the first case, the opponent can just whack the monk and it turns into full attacks against each other. There are no AoO's! In the second case, the opponent can choose to five-foot step to close the distance and do the same (no AoO's!). He could choose to 5ft step away and use a ranged tactic if he can, or, if the quarters are cramped and he can reach another person with his 5ft step, he can do that (still no AoO's). In the third case, the opponent just ignores the meagre damage output of the monk.</p><p></p><p>Note also that a dex monk with reach weapon is <em>really</em> dealing pathetic damage; most opponents can safely ignore it. Who cares if the monk is dealing 1d8 damage? That's 4.5 vs. 25.5 damage. The monk can improve it a bit if he has good stats (that is, good Str, Dex, Con, <em>and</em> Wis), or with an expensive weapon, but it's never going to be very threatening, damage wise. And investing much in the way of feats or magic items is an expensive proposistion which the fighter can truly benefit from, but which the monk would need to spread between his unarmed strike and his reach weapon, and benefit less from in the first place (since he's a finesse fighter and needs more stat boosts to get the same effect). When damage reduction comes into play, the odds are shifted yet more towards the harder hitter.</p><p></p><p><em>Whatever happens, the monk is never going to be able to get multiple attacks per round if the opponent can only get one.</em></p><p></p><p>Finally, in all cases, the opponent can just choose to ignore the monk and head for the party. <strong>This means the monk gets <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/attacksOfOpportunity.htm#combatReflexes[/url" target="_blank">one and <em>only one</em></a> attack of opportunity.</strong> He doesn't get 2-6 - unless there are 2-6 opponents, in which case he get's one AoO per opponent. And even if the monk can damage 2-6 opponents, it's much much better in combat to take out one combatant first, than to mildly weaken them but leave them standing and able to retaliate. My damage calculations for the monk assumed he would be optimized to actually increase his base damage (which is well possible even without strength using feats and the monk's belt, and thus the smart thing to do if you want to dump strength). If you're full-attacking using anything but the unarmed strike, you'll do less damage - much, much, <em>much</em> less damage. </p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px">Numerical comparison:</span></p><p>But, in case you think I'm just postulating here, I've written a program to calculate these kind of things, taking into account all possible die rolls (including criticals, bonus dice, crit bonus dice, flurry of blows, twf, penalties related to those two, optimally chosen power attack, and the exact distribution of damage dice).</p><p></p><p>In the spoiler block are the calculated average damages dealt in a single attack and full attack (and their average) of a 9th level flurrying monk, the power attacking axe-wielding fighter described above, and such a fighter without power attack. These configurations are run against AC's of 14 (when the lowest attack bonus of the monk can hit even on a 2) of up to 39 (when the highest attack bonus needs a natural 20).</p><p></p><p>[sblock]</p><p>Legend:</p><p></p><p>Optimal PA:? (the first line is the optimal power attack of a single attack)</p><p>Optimal PA:? (the second line is the optimal power attack of a full attack)</p><p>THF (weighted, SA, and FA) : the average damage of an optimally power attacking Axe, first the average and then the single and then the full attack)</p><p>NoP - same, but without power attack</p><p>Monk - same, but for a monk (FA includes flurry)</p><p></p><p></p><p>=== vs. AC 14 ===</p><p>Optimal PA:7 (+12): dmg +14</p><p>Optimal PA:7 (+12, +7): dmg +14</p><p>THF-weighted: 56.49, SA: 41.28, FA: 71.69</p><p>NoP-weighted: 39.97, SA: 26.65, FA: 53.30</p><p>Monk-weighted: 30.92, SA: 15.46, FA: 46.38</p><p></p><p>=== vs. AC 15 ===</p><p>Optimal PA:6 (+13): dmg +12</p><p>Optimal PA:6 (+13, +8): dmg +12</p><p>THF-weighted: 53.63, SA: 39.19, FA: 68.06</p><p>NoP-weighted: 39.97, SA: 26.65, FA: 53.30</p><p>Monk-weighted: 30.52, SA: 15.46, FA: 45.57</p><p></p><p>=== vs. AC 16 ===</p><p>Optimal PA:6 (+13): dmg +12</p><p>Optimal PA:5 (+14, +9): dmg +10</p><p>THF-weighted: 50.78, SA: 37.13, FA: 64.43</p><p>NoP-weighted: 39.97, SA: 26.65, FA: 53.30</p><p>Monk-weighted: 30.11, SA: 15.46, FA: 44.76</p><p></p><p>=== vs. AC 17 ===</p><p>Optimal PA:5 (+14): dmg +10</p><p>Optimal PA:4 (+15, +10): dmg +8</p><p>THF-weighted: 47.97, SA: 35.15, FA: 60.80</p><p>NoP-weighted: 39.27, SA: 26.65, FA: 51.89</p><p>Monk-weighted: 29.70, SA: 15.46, FA: 43.94</p><p></p><p>=== vs. AC 18 ===</p><p>Optimal PA:5 (+14): dmg +10</p><p>Optimal PA:3 (+16, +11): dmg +6</p><p>THF-weighted: 45.18, SA: 33.19, FA: 57.17</p><p>NoP-weighted: 38.57, SA: 26.65, FA: 50.49</p><p>Monk-weighted: 29.30, SA: 15.46, FA: 43.13</p><p></p><p>=== vs. AC 19 ===</p><p>Optimal PA:4 (+15): dmg +8</p><p>Optimal PA:3 (+16, +11): dmg +6</p><p>THF-weighted: 42.52, SA: 31.32, FA: 53.71</p><p>NoP-weighted: 37.87, SA: 26.65, FA: 49.09</p><p>Monk-weighted: 28.89, SA: 15.46, FA: 42.32</p><p></p><p>=== vs. AC 20 ===</p><p>Optimal PA:4 (+15): dmg +8</p><p>Optimal PA:2 (+17, +12): dmg +4</p><p>THF-weighted: 39.89, SA: 29.48, FA: 50.30</p><p>NoP-weighted: 37.17, SA: 26.65, FA: 47.69</p><p>Monk-weighted: 27.26, SA: 14.65, FA: 39.87</p><p></p><p>=== vs. AC 21 ===</p><p>Optimal PA:3 (+16): dmg +6</p><p>Optimal PA:2 (+17, +12): dmg +4</p><p>THF-weighted: 37.39, SA: 27.72, FA: 47.05</p><p>NoP-weighted: 36.47, SA: 26.65, FA: 46.28</p><p>Monk-weighted: 25.63, SA: 13.83, FA: 37.43</p><p></p><p>=== vs. AC 22 ===</p><p>Optimal PA:3 (+16): dmg +6</p><p>Optimal PA:1 (+18, +13): dmg +2</p><p>THF-weighted: 34.93, SA: 25.99, FA: 43.86</p><p>NoP-weighted: 34.36, SA: 25.25, FA: 43.48</p><p>Monk-weighted: 24.01, SA: 13.02, FA: 34.99</p><p></p><p>=== vs. AC 23 ===</p><p>Optimal PA:2 (+17): dmg +4</p><p>Optimal PA:1 (+18, +13): dmg +2</p><p>THF-weighted: 32.59, SA: 24.34, FA: 40.84</p><p>NoP-weighted: 32.26, SA: 23.84, FA: 40.67</p><p>Monk-weighted: 22.38, SA: 12.21, FA: 32.55</p><p></p><p>=== vs. AC 24 ===</p><p>Optimal PA:2 (+17): dmg +4</p><p>Optimal PA:0 (+19, +14): dmg +0</p><p>THF-weighted: 30.29, SA: 22.72, FA: 37.87</p><p>NoP-weighted: 30.15, SA: 22.44, FA: 37.87</p><p>Monk-weighted: 20.75, SA: 11.39, FA: 30.11</p><p></p><p>=== vs. AC 25 ===</p><p>Optimal PA:1 (+18): dmg +2</p><p>Optimal PA:0 (+19, +14): dmg +0</p><p>THF-weighted: 28.12, SA: 21.18, FA: 35.06</p><p>NoP-weighted: 28.05, SA: 21.04, FA: 35.06</p><p>Monk-weighted: 19.12, SA: 10.58, FA: 27.67</p><p></p><p>=== vs. AC 26 ===</p><p>Optimal PA:1 (+18): dmg +2</p><p>Optimal PA:0 (+19, +14): dmg +0</p><p>THF-weighted: 25.96, SA: 19.66, FA: 32.26</p><p>NoP-weighted: 25.95, SA: 19.64, FA: 32.26</p><p>Monk-weighted: 17.50, SA: 9.77, FA: 25.23</p><p></p><p>=== vs. AC 27 ===</p><p>Optimal PA:0 (+19): dmg +0</p><p>Optimal PA:0 (+19, +14): dmg +0</p><p>THF-weighted: 23.84, SA: 18.23, FA: 29.45</p><p>NoP-weighted: 23.84, SA: 18.23, FA: 29.45</p><p>Monk-weighted: 15.87, SA: 8.95, FA: 22.79</p><p></p><p>=== vs. AC 28 ===</p><p>Optimal PA:0 (+19): dmg +0</p><p>Optimal PA:0 (+19, +14): dmg +0</p><p>THF-weighted: 21.74, SA: 16.83, FA: 26.65</p><p>NoP-weighted: 21.74, SA: 16.83, FA: 26.65</p><p>Monk-weighted: 14.24, SA: 8.14, FA: 20.34</p><p></p><p>=== vs. AC 29 ===</p><p>Optimal PA:0 (+19): dmg +0</p><p>Optimal PA:0 (+19, +14): dmg +0</p><p>THF-weighted: 19.64, SA: 15.43, FA: 23.84</p><p>NoP-weighted: 19.64, SA: 15.43, FA: 23.84</p><p>Monk-weighted: 12.61, SA: 7.32, FA: 17.90</p><p></p><p>=== vs. AC 30 ===</p><p>Optimal PA:0 (+19): dmg +0</p><p>Optimal PA:0 (+19, +14): dmg +0</p><p>THF-weighted: 17.53, SA: 14.03, FA: 21.04</p><p>NoP-weighted: 17.53, SA: 14.03, FA: 21.04</p><p>Monk-weighted: 10.99, SA: 6.51, FA: 15.46</p><p></p><p>=== vs. AC 31 ===</p><p>Optimal PA:0 (+19): dmg +0</p><p>Optimal PA:0 (+19, +14): dmg +0</p><p>THF-weighted: 15.43, SA: 12.62, FA: 18.23</p><p>NoP-weighted: 15.43, SA: 12.62, FA: 18.23</p><p>Monk-weighted: 9.36, SA: 5.70, FA: 13.02</p><p></p><p>=== vs. AC 32 ===</p><p>Optimal PA:0 (+19): dmg +0</p><p>Optimal PA:0 (+19, +14): dmg +0</p><p>THF-weighted: 13.32, SA: 11.22, FA: 15.43</p><p>NoP-weighted: 13.32, SA: 11.22, FA: 15.43</p><p>Monk-weighted: 7.73, SA: 4.88, FA: 10.58</p><p></p><p>=== vs. AC 33 ===</p><p>Optimal PA:0 (+19): dmg +0</p><p>Optimal PA:0 (+19, +14): dmg +0</p><p>THF-weighted: 11.22, SA: 9.82, FA: 12.62</p><p>NoP-weighted: 11.22, SA: 9.82, FA: 12.62</p><p>Monk-weighted: 6.51, SA: 4.07, FA: 8.95</p><p></p><p>=== vs. AC 34 ===</p><p>Optimal PA:0 (+19): dmg +0</p><p>Optimal PA:0 (+19, +14): dmg +0</p><p>THF-weighted: 9.12, SA: 8.42, FA: 9.82</p><p>NoP-weighted: 9.12, SA: 8.42, FA: 9.82</p><p>Monk-weighted: 5.29, SA: 3.26, FA: 7.32</p><p></p><p>=== vs. AC 35 ===</p><p>Optimal PA:0 (+19): dmg +0</p><p>Optimal PA:0 (+19, +14): dmg +0</p><p>THF-weighted: 7.71, SA: 7.01, FA: 8.42</p><p>NoP-weighted: 7.71, SA: 7.01, FA: 8.42</p><p>Monk-weighted: 4.07, SA: 2.44, FA: 5.70</p><p></p><p>=== vs. AC 36 ===</p><p>Optimal PA:0 (+19): dmg +0</p><p>Optimal PA:0 (+19, +14): dmg +0</p><p>THF-weighted: 6.31, SA: 5.61, FA: 7.01</p><p>NoP-weighted: 6.31, SA: 5.61, FA: 7.01</p><p>Monk-weighted: 2.85, SA: 1.63, FA: 4.07</p><p></p><p>=== vs. AC 37 ===</p><p>Optimal PA:0 (+19): dmg +0</p><p>Optimal PA:0 (+19, +14): dmg +0</p><p>THF-weighted: 4.91, SA: 4.21, FA: 5.61</p><p>NoP-weighted: 4.91, SA: 4.21, FA: 5.61</p><p>Monk-weighted: 1.63, SA: 0.81, FA: 2.44</p><p></p><p>=== vs. AC 38 ===</p><p>Optimal PA:0 (+19): dmg +0</p><p>Optimal PA:8 (+11, +6): dmg +16</p><p>THF-weighted: 3.69, SA: 2.81, FA: 4.57</p><p>NoP-weighted: 3.51, SA: 2.81, FA: 4.21</p><p>Monk-weighted: 1.63, SA: 0.81, FA: 2.44</p><p></p><p>=== vs. AC 39 ===</p><p>Optimal PA:8 (+11): dmg +16</p><p>Optimal PA:8 (+11, +6): dmg +16</p><p>THF-weighted: 3.42, SA: 2.28, FA: 4.57</p><p>NoP-weighted: 2.10, SA: 1.40, FA: 2.81</p><p>Monk-weighted: 1.63, SA: 0.81, FA: 2.44</p><p></p><p>=== Average over all AC's ===</p><p>THF-weighted: 26.29, SA: 19.88, FA: 32.71</p><p>NoP-weighted: 23.71, SA: 17.42, FA: 29.99</p><p>Monk-weighted: 16.56, SA: 8.98, FA: 24.13</p><p>[/sblock]</p><p></p><p>The conclusion from this? </p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Monk: 16.56 damage per round</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Suboptimal fighter without power attack: 23.71 damage per round</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">suboptimal fighter with power attack: 26.29.</li> </ul><p></p><p>Note that even in the best case, vs. AC 19 or so, a monk is still significantly behind the fighter without power attack, and just can't compete with the fighter with power attack.</p><p></p><p>Then, consider this fighter only has a bab of +8, doesn't have rage, and isn't a half-orc...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="eamon, post: 4022538, member: 51942"] The monk's tactics don't work well, regardless. [LIST] [*]First of all, you issues with bigger creatures, which just don't care about your 10ft reach. Not that reach isn't any good - but a good portion of creatures won't care much. [*]Secondly, if the monk has the choice of positioning himself, he can place himself adjacent to the opponent, (within 5ft reach), or within 10ft, or within 15ft and beyond. [/LIST] When it comes to positioning, in the first case, the opponent can just whack the monk and it turns into full attacks against each other. There are no AoO's! In the second case, the opponent can choose to five-foot step to close the distance and do the same (no AoO's!). He could choose to 5ft step away and use a ranged tactic if he can, or, if the quarters are cramped and he can reach another person with his 5ft step, he can do that (still no AoO's). In the third case, the opponent just ignores the meagre damage output of the monk. Note also that a dex monk with reach weapon is [i]really[/i] dealing pathetic damage; most opponents can safely ignore it. Who cares if the monk is dealing 1d8 damage? That's 4.5 vs. 25.5 damage. The monk can improve it a bit if he has good stats (that is, good Str, Dex, Con, [i]and[/i] Wis), or with an expensive weapon, but it's never going to be very threatening, damage wise. And investing much in the way of feats or magic items is an expensive proposistion which the fighter can truly benefit from, but which the monk would need to spread between his unarmed strike and his reach weapon, and benefit less from in the first place (since he's a finesse fighter and needs more stat boosts to get the same effect). When damage reduction comes into play, the odds are shifted yet more towards the harder hitter. [i]Whatever happens, the monk is never going to be able to get multiple attacks per round if the opponent can only get one.[/i] Finally, in all cases, the opponent can just choose to ignore the monk and head for the party. [b]This means the monk gets [url=http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/attacksOfOpportunity.htm#combatReflexes[/url]one and [i]only one[/i][/url] attack of opportunity.[/b] He doesn't get 2-6 - unless there are 2-6 opponents, in which case he get's one AoO per opponent. And even if the monk can damage 2-6 opponents, it's much much better in combat to take out one combatant first, than to mildly weaken them but leave them standing and able to retaliate. My damage calculations for the monk assumed he would be optimized to actually increase his base damage (which is well possible even without strength using feats and the monk's belt, and thus the smart thing to do if you want to dump strength). If you're full-attacking using anything but the unarmed strike, you'll do less damage - much, much, [i]much[/i] less damage. [SIZE=4]Numerical comparison:[/SIZE] But, in case you think I'm just postulating here, I've written a program to calculate these kind of things, taking into account all possible die rolls (including criticals, bonus dice, crit bonus dice, flurry of blows, twf, penalties related to those two, optimally chosen power attack, and the exact distribution of damage dice). In the spoiler block are the calculated average damages dealt in a single attack and full attack (and their average) of a 9th level flurrying monk, the power attacking axe-wielding fighter described above, and such a fighter without power attack. These configurations are run against AC's of 14 (when the lowest attack bonus of the monk can hit even on a 2) of up to 39 (when the highest attack bonus needs a natural 20). [sblock] Legend: Optimal PA:? (the first line is the optimal power attack of a single attack) Optimal PA:? (the second line is the optimal power attack of a full attack) THF (weighted, SA, and FA) : the average damage of an optimally power attacking Axe, first the average and then the single and then the full attack) NoP - same, but without power attack Monk - same, but for a monk (FA includes flurry) === vs. AC 14 === Optimal PA:7 (+12): dmg +14 Optimal PA:7 (+12, +7): dmg +14 THF-weighted: 56.49, SA: 41.28, FA: 71.69 NoP-weighted: 39.97, SA: 26.65, FA: 53.30 Monk-weighted: 30.92, SA: 15.46, FA: 46.38 === vs. AC 15 === Optimal PA:6 (+13): dmg +12 Optimal PA:6 (+13, +8): dmg +12 THF-weighted: 53.63, SA: 39.19, FA: 68.06 NoP-weighted: 39.97, SA: 26.65, FA: 53.30 Monk-weighted: 30.52, SA: 15.46, FA: 45.57 === vs. AC 16 === Optimal PA:6 (+13): dmg +12 Optimal PA:5 (+14, +9): dmg +10 THF-weighted: 50.78, SA: 37.13, FA: 64.43 NoP-weighted: 39.97, SA: 26.65, FA: 53.30 Monk-weighted: 30.11, SA: 15.46, FA: 44.76 === vs. AC 17 === Optimal PA:5 (+14): dmg +10 Optimal PA:4 (+15, +10): dmg +8 THF-weighted: 47.97, SA: 35.15, FA: 60.80 NoP-weighted: 39.27, SA: 26.65, FA: 51.89 Monk-weighted: 29.70, SA: 15.46, FA: 43.94 === vs. AC 18 === Optimal PA:5 (+14): dmg +10 Optimal PA:3 (+16, +11): dmg +6 THF-weighted: 45.18, SA: 33.19, FA: 57.17 NoP-weighted: 38.57, SA: 26.65, FA: 50.49 Monk-weighted: 29.30, SA: 15.46, FA: 43.13 === vs. AC 19 === Optimal PA:4 (+15): dmg +8 Optimal PA:3 (+16, +11): dmg +6 THF-weighted: 42.52, SA: 31.32, FA: 53.71 NoP-weighted: 37.87, SA: 26.65, FA: 49.09 Monk-weighted: 28.89, SA: 15.46, FA: 42.32 === vs. AC 20 === Optimal PA:4 (+15): dmg +8 Optimal PA:2 (+17, +12): dmg +4 THF-weighted: 39.89, SA: 29.48, FA: 50.30 NoP-weighted: 37.17, SA: 26.65, FA: 47.69 Monk-weighted: 27.26, SA: 14.65, FA: 39.87 === vs. AC 21 === Optimal PA:3 (+16): dmg +6 Optimal PA:2 (+17, +12): dmg +4 THF-weighted: 37.39, SA: 27.72, FA: 47.05 NoP-weighted: 36.47, SA: 26.65, FA: 46.28 Monk-weighted: 25.63, SA: 13.83, FA: 37.43 === vs. AC 22 === Optimal PA:3 (+16): dmg +6 Optimal PA:1 (+18, +13): dmg +2 THF-weighted: 34.93, SA: 25.99, FA: 43.86 NoP-weighted: 34.36, SA: 25.25, FA: 43.48 Monk-weighted: 24.01, SA: 13.02, FA: 34.99 === vs. AC 23 === Optimal PA:2 (+17): dmg +4 Optimal PA:1 (+18, +13): dmg +2 THF-weighted: 32.59, SA: 24.34, FA: 40.84 NoP-weighted: 32.26, SA: 23.84, FA: 40.67 Monk-weighted: 22.38, SA: 12.21, FA: 32.55 === vs. AC 24 === Optimal PA:2 (+17): dmg +4 Optimal PA:0 (+19, +14): dmg +0 THF-weighted: 30.29, SA: 22.72, FA: 37.87 NoP-weighted: 30.15, SA: 22.44, FA: 37.87 Monk-weighted: 20.75, SA: 11.39, FA: 30.11 === vs. AC 25 === Optimal PA:1 (+18): dmg +2 Optimal PA:0 (+19, +14): dmg +0 THF-weighted: 28.12, SA: 21.18, FA: 35.06 NoP-weighted: 28.05, SA: 21.04, FA: 35.06 Monk-weighted: 19.12, SA: 10.58, FA: 27.67 === vs. AC 26 === Optimal PA:1 (+18): dmg +2 Optimal PA:0 (+19, +14): dmg +0 THF-weighted: 25.96, SA: 19.66, FA: 32.26 NoP-weighted: 25.95, SA: 19.64, FA: 32.26 Monk-weighted: 17.50, SA: 9.77, FA: 25.23 === vs. AC 27 === Optimal PA:0 (+19): dmg +0 Optimal PA:0 (+19, +14): dmg +0 THF-weighted: 23.84, SA: 18.23, FA: 29.45 NoP-weighted: 23.84, SA: 18.23, FA: 29.45 Monk-weighted: 15.87, SA: 8.95, FA: 22.79 === vs. AC 28 === Optimal PA:0 (+19): dmg +0 Optimal PA:0 (+19, +14): dmg +0 THF-weighted: 21.74, SA: 16.83, FA: 26.65 NoP-weighted: 21.74, SA: 16.83, FA: 26.65 Monk-weighted: 14.24, SA: 8.14, FA: 20.34 === vs. AC 29 === Optimal PA:0 (+19): dmg +0 Optimal PA:0 (+19, +14): dmg +0 THF-weighted: 19.64, SA: 15.43, FA: 23.84 NoP-weighted: 19.64, SA: 15.43, FA: 23.84 Monk-weighted: 12.61, SA: 7.32, FA: 17.90 === vs. AC 30 === Optimal PA:0 (+19): dmg +0 Optimal PA:0 (+19, +14): dmg +0 THF-weighted: 17.53, SA: 14.03, FA: 21.04 NoP-weighted: 17.53, SA: 14.03, FA: 21.04 Monk-weighted: 10.99, SA: 6.51, FA: 15.46 === vs. AC 31 === Optimal PA:0 (+19): dmg +0 Optimal PA:0 (+19, +14): dmg +0 THF-weighted: 15.43, SA: 12.62, FA: 18.23 NoP-weighted: 15.43, SA: 12.62, FA: 18.23 Monk-weighted: 9.36, SA: 5.70, FA: 13.02 === vs. AC 32 === Optimal PA:0 (+19): dmg +0 Optimal PA:0 (+19, +14): dmg +0 THF-weighted: 13.32, SA: 11.22, FA: 15.43 NoP-weighted: 13.32, SA: 11.22, FA: 15.43 Monk-weighted: 7.73, SA: 4.88, FA: 10.58 === vs. AC 33 === Optimal PA:0 (+19): dmg +0 Optimal PA:0 (+19, +14): dmg +0 THF-weighted: 11.22, SA: 9.82, FA: 12.62 NoP-weighted: 11.22, SA: 9.82, FA: 12.62 Monk-weighted: 6.51, SA: 4.07, FA: 8.95 === vs. AC 34 === Optimal PA:0 (+19): dmg +0 Optimal PA:0 (+19, +14): dmg +0 THF-weighted: 9.12, SA: 8.42, FA: 9.82 NoP-weighted: 9.12, SA: 8.42, FA: 9.82 Monk-weighted: 5.29, SA: 3.26, FA: 7.32 === vs. AC 35 === Optimal PA:0 (+19): dmg +0 Optimal PA:0 (+19, +14): dmg +0 THF-weighted: 7.71, SA: 7.01, FA: 8.42 NoP-weighted: 7.71, SA: 7.01, FA: 8.42 Monk-weighted: 4.07, SA: 2.44, FA: 5.70 === vs. AC 36 === Optimal PA:0 (+19): dmg +0 Optimal PA:0 (+19, +14): dmg +0 THF-weighted: 6.31, SA: 5.61, FA: 7.01 NoP-weighted: 6.31, SA: 5.61, FA: 7.01 Monk-weighted: 2.85, SA: 1.63, FA: 4.07 === vs. AC 37 === Optimal PA:0 (+19): dmg +0 Optimal PA:0 (+19, +14): dmg +0 THF-weighted: 4.91, SA: 4.21, FA: 5.61 NoP-weighted: 4.91, SA: 4.21, FA: 5.61 Monk-weighted: 1.63, SA: 0.81, FA: 2.44 === vs. AC 38 === Optimal PA:0 (+19): dmg +0 Optimal PA:8 (+11, +6): dmg +16 THF-weighted: 3.69, SA: 2.81, FA: 4.57 NoP-weighted: 3.51, SA: 2.81, FA: 4.21 Monk-weighted: 1.63, SA: 0.81, FA: 2.44 === vs. AC 39 === Optimal PA:8 (+11): dmg +16 Optimal PA:8 (+11, +6): dmg +16 THF-weighted: 3.42, SA: 2.28, FA: 4.57 NoP-weighted: 2.10, SA: 1.40, FA: 2.81 Monk-weighted: 1.63, SA: 0.81, FA: 2.44 === Average over all AC's === THF-weighted: 26.29, SA: 19.88, FA: 32.71 NoP-weighted: 23.71, SA: 17.42, FA: 29.99 Monk-weighted: 16.56, SA: 8.98, FA: 24.13 [/sblock] The conclusion from this? [LIST] [*]Monk: 16.56 damage per round [*]Suboptimal fighter without power attack: 23.71 damage per round [*]suboptimal fighter with power attack: 26.29. [/LIST] Note that even in the best case, vs. AC 19 or so, a monk is still significantly behind the fighter without power attack, and just can't compete with the fighter with power attack. Then, consider this fighter only has a bab of +8, doesn't have rage, and isn't a half-orc... [/QUOTE]
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