Monk's Lawful Ki Strike

[Nyarlathotep]

Quick question for you all.

Aside from Slaad, what other monsters is the monk's ki strike (lawful) usefull against? One of my player's is complaining that it is totally useless as there is nothing (aside from Slaad) to use it against. As far as I can tell he is correct. If there is nothing else that has DR/lawful what do you think might be a good substitute?

Thanks!

 

[Tessarael]

Lawful is fairly crappy. The majority of aligned DR is evil or good ... that's the sort of game world that D&D assumes.

 

[UltimaGabe]

what do you think might be a good substitute?

Nothing.

Tell me this: Is the character losing anything by getting Ki Strike: Lawful? Of course not. So why do you want to get rid of it? Just because it doesn't look like it'll be useful all the time? Leave it the way it is. It WILL be useful sometime, and it fits the class. Taking it out would just mess up the idea of the class.

 

[Matafuego]

IMC there's a group of NG monks that have Ki Strike / Good and can also lay on hands, but I had to spend some time redesigning the whole class instead of changing one for another. It makes sense though.

 

[Scharlata]

Quick question for you all.

Aside from Slaad, what other monsters is the monk's ki strike (lawful) usefull against? [...]

Abomination, Dream Larva (ELH)
Abomination, Phaeton (ELH)
Divine Agent, Prestige Class (MoP)
Necronaut (MM3)
Rilmani, Aurumach (FF)
Rilmani, Cuprilach (FF)
Rilmani, Ferrumach (FF)
Slaad, Black (ELH)
Slaad, Death (MM)
Slaad, Grey (MM)
Slaad, White (ELH)
Titan (MM)
Trilloch (MM3)
------

MM = Monster Manual
MM 3 = Monster Manual 3
FF = Fiend Folio*
ELH = Epic Level Handbook*
MoP = Manual of the Planes*
-------
* = Update Booklet

I'm not sure at all whether I've found all creatures with DR #/lawful or #/* and/or lawful, or not...

Kind regards

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Nothing.

Tell me this: Is the character losing anything by getting Ki Strike: Lawful? Of course not. So why do you want to get rid of it? Just because it doesn't look like it'll be useful all the time? Leave it the way it is. It WILL be useful sometime, and it fits the class. Taking it out would just mess up the idea of the class.

I suppose his POV is that he is losing something. He gains a special ability for class advancement that (to him) is in fact no special ability based on the fact that it works on only one monster type in the core rules. No offense, but I don't buy the idea that exchanging out the lawful ki strike would mess up the idea of the class. Let's face it, say monk to anyone and the first thing that pops into their heads is not "Oh yeah, the class with the cool Lawful Ki Strike!".

I'm not sure at all whether I've found all creatures with DR #/lawful or #/* and/or lawful, or not...

Kind regards

My thanks! My player will be happier I hope.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I suppose his POV is that he is losing something. He gains a special ability for class advancement that (to him) is in fact no special ability based on the fact that it works on only one monster type in the core rules.

On the one hand, I can understand where your player is coming from. I feel the same way about the paladin's Remove Disease ability, and have asked my DM if I could exchange it for something that will actually see some use.

On the other hand, a case can be made for a fighter trading out all the weapon proficiencies he's never going to use, as well. And most DMs around here will (rightfully) hit a player over the head with the munchkin hammer for even suggesting this.

I think it all comes down to the balance in your specific campaign. Is the monk one of the more powerful members of your team? If not, you might allow him a bit of leeway, and trade out the Lawful Ki strike for something else. Personally, I'd probably go with a Good or Evil Ki strike (depending on the monk's non-lawful aspect). It's the same ability, but will be useful far more often.

Of course, I'd then have to plan a few adventurings featuring Slaad.

 

[Bryin]

Give the monks of lawful/good/chaotic/evil choices instead of dust lawful, they get one of them and thats that. simple question simple answer

 

[CRGreathouse]

Give him something else in exchange, then throw slaadi at the party by the dozens. Laugh.

 

[UltimaGabe]

I suppose his POV is that he is losing something. He gains a special ability for class advancement that (to him) is in fact no special ability based on the fact that it works on only one monster type in the core rules.

"Dang it! I so could have used that ability slot on some other, cooler ability!"

...except that you can't, since he doesn't get a choice as to whether or not he gets the ability in the first place. Like I said, he isn't losing anything. Monks already gets tons of special abilities- Slow Fall, Dimension Door, Quivering Palm, Greater Flurry of Blows, Ethereal Travel, and Ki Strike Adamantine, to name a few- and, as it turns out, one of his bonus abilities isn't as useful as the others. It's not like he could have chosen something else, so what's he losing? As others have said, abilities chosen by the player are generally much, much more powerful than abilities set in stone. Would you let a Barbarian trade out his DR for Fast Healing or something? A lot of people don't think that DR of 2/- is worth anything. But does that mean that they should be able to get something else, of their choice, instead? It sure fits the class, and once again, the player isn't losing anything at all. He may not be gaining as big of a bonus as he did at another point in his class, but so what?