D&D 5E Monks Suck

[Asisreo]

So don't play those feats, magic items or subclasses?

Right now the monk is a very unpopular class. It's less popular than it was in third edition I think, for example. And third edition had magic items to help increase monk damage. So if these are not issues in your game, don't use them. I am suggesting it's an issue for enough people's enjoyment of the class that it would help them.

Yes, of course the solution to something seen as worse than something else is "don't play that."

Why not just not play monk if you don't think they're good?

 

[Mort]

Oh yeah for sure. But that's a different problem.

We're assuming the 2-3 short rests and 6 or so encounter adventuring day median here.

But when you stress test something you don't just test optimal conditions!

When the warlock runs out of spells he can still spam eldritch blast (possibly cheesy and boring but can't say ineffective);
When the BM fighter runs out of maneuvers he's still got a decent armor class, a good weapon etc.;
When a monk runs out of ki... then what?

This is not a pejorative or insult - I'm honestly asking when the monk runs out of ki - what's his best move (and yes the answer is likely subclass dependent, so there may be more than one answer)?

 

[Flamestrike]

But when you stress test something you don't just test optimal conditions!

Thats not optimal. That's the median.

Optimal would be a long multi encounter adventuring day, difficult long rests (frequent random encounter for example) with lots of short rests between long rests.

Or Gritty realism. With a week of downtime required to long rest, you're likely getting several short rests between long rests.

 

[Flamestrike]

When the warlock runs out of spells he can still spam eldritch blast (possibly cheesy and boring but can't say ineffective);
When the BM fighter runs out of maneuvers he's still got a decent armor class, a good weapon etc.;
When a monk runs out of ki... then what?

This is not a pejorative or insult - I'm honestly asking when the monk runs out of ki - what's his best move (and yes the answer is likely subclass dependent, so there may be more than one answer)?

Kensai Monk at 9th level (no Ki)

3 attacks at 1D10+5, 1D6+5, 1D6+5 at +9 to hit. AC 20

Warlock at 9th level, no slots, no Hex (but AB), Medium armor and shield because Hexblade:

2 attacks 1d10+5, 1d10+5 at +9 to hit, AC 19, HP same as the Monk

Battlemaster Great weapon fighter (no resources), Full plate

2 attacks 2d6+15, 2d6+15 at +4 to hit (RR 1's and 2's), AC 18, 19 more HP than the Monk.

Evoker Wizard, no slots, cantrips only

1 attack 2d10+5, +9 to hit, AC 13 (dex) 9 less HP than the Monk.

Look about on par to me.

 

[Istbor]

Nope. I don't think Monks are top dog of anything. I wouldn't use the word suck here mind you. I usually find myself agreeing with Treentmonk's analysis as well.

Now, can they still be fun? Sure! I have a Lizardfolk Kensei Monk currently. Not at all optimized, but definitely fun. I certainly do see cracks in the class, and where it could use improvement. At my current level of 9, nothing coming down the pipe for additional Monk features really tickles me. Have been considering multi-classing at this point, but to what?! Unknown.

 

[Flamestrike]

At my current level of 9, nothing coming down the pipe for additional Monk features really tickles me. Have been considering multi-classing at this point, but to what?! Unknown.

I MC/d my Kensai Monk to BM Fighter (3 levels) at 5th.

Disarming strike, Precise attack, Evasive Footwork, Riposte*

(took the UA F/S that grants an extra die and manoeuvre known)

More for flavor (swordmaster), but it gives so many more options.

Stunned creatures auto fail Str and Dex saves, meaning I can disarm them automatically when stunned just to really screw them over (and then use my free object interaction to kick the weapon away).

When I Nova from full, and action surge and flurry it's 6 attacks, I can Stun on 4 of those, and have 5 superiority dice to blow as well.

It's also nice to Dash (ki point) as a bonus action 100' away (Mobile) and then when you get there, Action surge + Stun+Sup dice the (normally a Caster) to death.

Instead of 8 Ki, I have 5 Ki, and 5 Sup dice (4 from BM and 1 from the F/S) and an Action surge up my sleeve.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I actually like the idea of strength monks.

If there were, I would be rolling a Tortle monk so fast.

 

[FrogReaver]

If there were, I would be rolling a Tortle monk so fast.

Ninja tortle!

 

[Flamestrike]

If there were, I would be rolling a Tortle monk so fast.

Perfectly viable.

You can use Str to hit and damage, and your AC is looked after due to Toitle.

You could dump Dex to 8, Max str and wis and be perfectly fine.

Don't forget to sing the TMNT song at the start of each of your turns, and write into your back story how you were trained by a wererat in hybrid form in the sewers of a large city.

 

[Chaosmancer]

This is not a pejorative or insult - I'm honestly asking when the monk runs out of ki - what's his best move (and yes the answer is likely subclass dependent, so there may be more than one answer)?

They still have the same AC (which is decent), make three attacks per turn, and have high movement speed. This is actually the situation I think makes mobile a decent pick for monks, because they can still strike and fade with no ki, and their ki use was focused on patient defense and flurry, upping AC and Damage output.