Monotheism?

[Dogbrain]

I always viewed the saints of christianity as being sorts of demi-gods. They're each patrons of one area or another, and so you pray to whatever saint is applicable. Pretty much all bases are covered - there is even a patron saint of thieves (Nicholas of Myra). For a list of all saints and their patronages, go here. There are some really good ideas for D&D saints, angels, or demigods to be gotten from this list.

Protestant/Reformed Christians deny the efficacy of any saint and decry any prayer to them. So do you say that Protestants aren't Christian?

Likewise, the Roman Catholic view of what a "Saint" is and how Saints function is not universal to all Christians who do venerate saints. The Orthodox Church does not have "patron saints" and certainly doesn't recognize the categorizations of Rome. We have no "patron saint of thieves" and would consider the idea to be reprehensible.

That being said, there is another "list" that would work very well as a template for a pantheon, specifically the descendents of Cain.

Cain: First Farmer, founded first city
Awan: Cain’s Sister-Wife
Enoch: Ruler of first city, founder of six others
Irad the Fugitive: God of secrets and the night
Mehujael:
Methushael:
Lamech, first to have two wives: patron of Fertility and sex
Jabal: patron of Herds and Nomads
Jubal: patron of Music
Tubal-Cain: Patron of Crafts
Naamah the Lovely: She of the cymbals, patron of Religion

 

[Dogbrain]

then why do you venerate god's son and call him your lord? by your definition, the only one you should venerate is god him/herself.

And from what i've gathered about christianity in general is that Christ was an avatar, not the deity himself.

You have been woefully misled regarding Christian doctrine.

Trinitarian Christianity (the majority of Christians) holds God to be a tripartite Entity. My own Church interprets the matter thus:

The Father is eternally begetting and the source. The Son is eternally being begotten of the Father. The Holy Spirit is eternally proceeding from the Father. All three are one, where one is, the other two are. They are one in Essence and Will. There was never a time when the Father was not begetting the son. There was never a time in which the Holy Spirit is not proceeding from the Father. Likewise, the Son is always being begotten of the father.

The terms used are an attempt to comprehend ultimately transcendent and timeless relations between the hypostases of the Trinity. Each hypostasis is an actualization of the Trinity, but God is the Whole.

 

[MerakSpielman]

Agreed that it is difficult to talk about any religion generically. I think the only unifying factor of Christians is that they all believe Christ is the son of god.
Where I live a lot of the Christians are Catholics, so that's what I'm used to.

 

[tzor]

Fascinating. A thread that has entered into real world religious topics yet has remained civil. I didn't think that was possible. I'm glad it is.

I'm not using a monotheistic campaign, but I was toying with one recently. In the abstract I think one of the problems/opportunities is the general notion of portfolios and the one deity. The portfolios can be given to underlings of the deity, or to various groups within the general body of worshipers.

D&D probably works well with some element of dualism. From the strict standpoint dualism would imply one good deity and one evil deity. One could, however, also use one good deity and one evil oligarchy, explaining why good is always above evil because good is one and evil is divided. This can be further divided between the lawful and the chaotic in a blood war like scenario.

 

[MerakSpielman]

Fascinating. A thread that has entered into real world religious topics yet has remained civil. I didn't think that was possible. I'm glad it is.

I'm sure at least one mod has their nervous eye on this thread, finger poised over the "Close Thread" button.

 

[smetzger]

from what i've seen, all of the 'good' religions in our world have the same basic theology. that is, do good things go to heaven. do bad things, go to hell. And even the major patheons have a 'king' or chief diety followed by numerous others.

A Reformed Christian does not believe "do good things go to heaven."

A Reformed Christian believes in the total depravity of man and that man cannot _do_ anything to get into heaven. Getting into heaven is entirely dependent on the Grace of God.

 

[MerakSpielman]

I believe it's the Calvinists who first stated the doctrine of predestiny - that it was already decided who would get into heaven. You had no choice in the matter - it was preordained before your birth.

 

[Dogbrain]

A Reformed Christian does not believe "do good things go to heaven."

A Reformed Christian believes in the total depravity of man and that man cannot _do_ anything to get into heaven. Getting into heaven is entirely dependent on the Grace of God.

Mind you, there are levels of difference here.

In the Kingdom of Beza, only those Born Elect may obtain favor of Elon and eventually become great heroes. All others are doomed for their souls to wander forever in the pits of Hyal, for this is what they deserve, by their very nature. The Born Elect are, since they have favor of the Gods, easy to spot, for they are the ones who become heroes and great leaders--except for those who have become servants of Evil, who also get great power, but they are easy to spot, since they disagree with the edicts of the Beza hierarchy. Any good or great deeds done by those not Born Elect are ultimately worthless, their fates are sealed. Among the Born Elect, no evil deeds they do matter, for they are Favored of Elon from before the beginning of time. Elon will call the Elect. All who are not of the Elect or do not obey the Elect must be subjugated for the glory of Elon.

In the Uytenbog Grand Duchy, on the other hand (a former province of the Kingdom of Beza), it is held that Elon has determined who He shall favor and other attitudes are very similar to Beza's, but one of the Born Elect can be cast out for misbehavior.

The bordering kingdom of Embur holds that Elon has offered greatness and a place at His table and in His palace to all; this offer is undeserved by mortals and that Elon offers it from love. However, only those who accept the offer and labor vigorously towards it actually get it. Great deeds by those who do not accept Elon's offer are tragically wasted, so it is best to ensure that all know of the offer.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Good alternatives, but how about:
Alternative 3: the magics of the clerics represent divine gifts to them intended to enable them to more fully embody the God's will on earth by performing acts beyond ordinary mortal ken. However, these gifts, once given are irrevocable and if a gifted one falls from the true path, s/he retains at least a portion of the gift to use or abuse. Consequently, they tend to be held to a higher standard than other followers of the deity since their faithlessness has greater consequences.

Under this scenario, the two warring nations' priests would receive magic and could even use it in battle since each specific use of their powers isn't necessarily vetted by the deity. However, if their general conduct--including but not limited to the war--were to fall below standard, they would suffer discipline (although not complete loss of powers). And it's always possible that demonic entities would offer to make up the gap in apparent powers or that they could use charlatanery to fake it and retain their moral authority.

It's also possible that, under an interpretation of the God that would generally be considered lawful (let me pause to obligatorily repeat the caveat that I believe the D&D version of the Law/Chaos axis to be incoherent), priests on both sides might well be doing the right thing by supporting their lawful leaders in a conflict. And under a Good interpretation, healing the wounded might well be considered an act of mercy (and therefore good) whether or not the God approved of the particular war or the side of the war whose soldiers were being healed. (Such a version of Good is probably not consequentialist but consequentialist arguments relating to the individual salvation and faith of the soldiers could be made).

Let us presume a monotheist cosmology. There is but one deity. Let us further presume that this deity is "good". However, this deity is also somewhat distant. For "the good of free will" or whathever reason, deity has absented from direct intervention, instead granting clerics divine magic.

But a side-effect of this distance is that demonic forces can also meddle, and they likewise grant "divine" magic, although it is actually infernal lies meant to draw people away from the truth. The demonic forces even pretend to be benevolent, at least for a while...

So, what happens when two countries that both worship deity are at war?

Alternative one: Neither sides divine magic work against each other.

Alternative two: deity actually withdraws divine magic but infernal forces then try to worm their way into the matter, enticing, tempting, pretending to be deity, slowly perverting the religion.

Of course, human nature being what it is, I foresee that, over time, the majority of people will be under the yoke of demonic forces, tempted there by promises and lies like "deity is on your side in this war"...

 

[shivamuffin]

Religion is a touchy subject...


Just make a god already! LOL

Then provide conflicting forces.