Monotheism

[Oubliette]

Just have something that I've been kicking around in my head for a while, and wondered if anyone had any experience/suggestions/thoughts about it. I was thinking about making my world monotheistic, that is, only one god exists that grants clerics powers (or rather, only one is entrenched in the cultures of the "normal" dwarves, humans, etc.)

My problem is this, I want to have this church's priesthood be made up of all kinds of people, good ones, bad ones, warlike ones, pacifists, just like the organized religions we see in the real world.

I thought I'd handle the way the various races worship this deity by loosely modeling their various practises on different real world sects of major religions, that is to say the elves and the dwarves have independant priesthoods with different customs and rituals, but the fundamentals of worship and the mythology are the same and they both acknowledge that they are praying to the same god.

My reasons for doing this is that I was never fond of the absolutist way in which the religions work in the regular setting, where if the church of say, Helm gets involved, you know they are on the side of good. The church's activities, like those of secular organizations, can now be just as mysterious.

As for the why's of how the same god would grant powers to both a CE and a LG priest, I'm not too concerned. I figured I'd give 'em the old "God moves in mysterious ways" line if the players ask, then figure it out later if the point becomes salient.



*Important Note: My players are not the sorts who would have problems with this, and, while I am an athiest, my intention is not to make a comment on the real world, so those points don't bear discussion.


Thoughts?

 

[EricNoah]

You could have a god that has a really really complex philosophy but that essentially boils down to -- "To Each His Own." He/she/it will provide divine power to anyone if they seek it out.

Or you could have the god provide spells to his/her faithful, and then have the rest of the world get divine power not from gods but from some other force (say, Elements) or philosophies (say, Evil).

 

[Rashak Mani]

You could go along the lines of this only God being all aspects at the same time... he permeates the world and yet has no specific orientation. Some aspects of modern pagan cults (from what I understand... not a specialist) seems to view "God" as being everywhere and representing all natural forces and isnt evil nor good.

Clerics of all orientation could tap into this divine source. Maybe using different methods and rituals, but with the same results. (Only crimes would be going against the natural grain of things. Like trying to become immortal thou you are a mortal ?)

 

[Samothdm]

My reasons for doing this is that I was never fond of the absolutist way in which the religions work in the regular setting, where if the church of say, Helm gets involved, you know they are on the side of good. The church's activities, like those of secular organizations, can now be just as mysterious.

I'm doing this IMC right now for the same reasons. There are actually four main monotheistic religions, each thinking that they are the only religion. All four have good, evil, neutral priests, as well as priests from all the major races (including goblins and orcs, even). What none of the four religions know, however, is that all four of them are just different culturally-specific systems of the same faith. They're all ultimately worshipping the same power/entity.

It works out pretty well (the players haven't figured it out yet, mainly because for some reason NONE of them are interested in the religious angle of the world).

As for the why's of how the same god would grant powers to both a CE and a LG priest, I'm not too concerned. I figured I'd give 'em the old "God moves in mysterious ways" line if the players ask, then figure it out later if the point becomes salient.

I'm a little more vague on this point IMC. I'm really not sure how to handle it. Why would the god grant powers to evil worshippers and to good worshippers? I have an overall story arc in the world wherein there is a main, really super uber-powerful and evil villain guy. He's manipulating everybody to do his bidding, but nobody knows he even really exists. So, why would the god grant powers to people who are doing this guy's bidding, and then in the next second grant spells to priests who are fighting against that guy? I can't seem to reconcile it.

elves and the dwarves have independant priesthoods with different customs and rituals, but the fundamentals of worship and the mythology are the same and they both acknowledge that they are praying to the same god.

I like this. IMC, the priests are a little more entwined. In one city, for example, someone may find that the main spiritual leader for the city is an elf who is assisted by a council of priests that are a mixture of humans, half-elves, goblins, and dwarves.

In short, I think it's a good idea that hasn't been explored too much in most products about clerics and religion that I've seen (haven't picked up "Book of the Righteous" yet so I don't know if there are any monotheistic churches in there).

 

[Mark]

Perhaps in your Monotheistic world, the deity believes in free will and is just a score keeper...

 

[J Lloyd]

...

As for the why's of how the same god would grant powers to both a CE and a LG priest, I'm not too concerned. I figured I'd give 'em the old "God moves in mysterious ways" line if the players ask, then figure it out later if the point becomes salient.

...

Thoughts?

There are several ways you might go about doing this. Three come to mind right now.

1. Deity is the portal by which divine "energy" is tapped. This model holds two assumptions. [1] The Deity doesn't control who receives the energy. [2] Worshippers can draw on the energy regardless of their beliefs or feelings or actions toward the Deity. Good and evil then derive their powers from the same source but they use it for their own respective purposes.

2. Deity is either (a) uncaring, or (b) indifferent [Neutral]. This model allows the Deity to control who gets what energy. Being indifferent, the Deity hands out energy to whomever she pleases. Neutral beings having no stake in good or evil (or having a great deal of stake in either good or evil) hands out the energy either willy-nilly or strategically to either side.

3. Deity has lesser minions that rebel againt her. And being divine, they might be able to grant abilities to followers as well. This runs close to dualism, but not so much, since you already place one of the divine energy givers as subordinate, or at least less powerful, than the other being. Though this might border on dualism (see below), the more powerful deity can, at any time--or maybe with some effort--snuff out the weaker being.

Things to avoid (or think through carefully).

1. The Deity hands energy to one side and another force or philosophy allows energy to another side. Though Eric's suggestion is valid and functional, it may lead to a mental state where characters (and GM included) say there is a monotheistic typesetting for religion but, for obvious reasons, act and behave as if the system was really dualistic. This is further exacerbated because the Deity can't "kill," "control," "have dominion over," or "be sovereign over," an idea or force [or maybe she can--perhaps the force or thought is a renegade aspect of the deity...part of the Deity but uncontrollable by her]. As long as the force or philosophy continue's to exist outside the will of the Deity, the other side can manipulate divine energy, thus creating two equal but polar powers--resulting in dualism. Historical note: Christianity and some parts of Judaism have come close to dualism while wrestling over the concepts of YHWH [God] and the Advocate [Satan, Devil].

 

[Xarlen]

Wow. This kinda reflects on the belief that All religions in OUR world are essentially the same (With spesific tailoring effects).

Although, as said, some clerics could be Shamans (See Mongoose's Shaman's book), worship Elementals or Demons/outer planar beings/Nature, etc.

 

[fusangite]

I think you have a great idea there and should run with it.

A few thoughts (note: everything here is a gross oversimplification and therefore not entirely true):

(a) Look at trinitarian theory. God has one nature and three persons (person literally meaning 'theatrical mask' in latin). There's a lot of other interesting stuff there to form an intellectual bedrock for God being several and one.

(b) Look at living god structures; in 1870, papal infalibility was a compromise between those who saw the pope as just another Christian and those who wanted him recognized as _the incarnation of the Holy Spirit on earth_; interestingly, the Vatican Council instead recognized the church as a whole as the Holy Spirit on earth. Yves Congar, the Catholic theologian put forward that in fact, the World Council of Churches was, in fact, the Holy Spirit. The obscure Russian sect, the Doukhobors believe that there is a living Christ on earth at all times. Monotheism is much more conducive to human avatars of God than is polytheism.

(c) Obviously, you're probably versed in the Muslim idea that one should respect the 'peoples of the book' -- recognizing that Christians and Jews are worshipping the same God, if incorrectly.

(d) You should take a good look at the Mormon church for models of clearly differentiating yourself within monotheism. The idea of Christ coming twice -- once to each hemisphere -- and also the idea of practicing the Aaronic Priesthood instead of the priesthood of Melchizedek (I'm sure I'm spelling this wrong) are useful, not to mention the supplemental holy book.

(e) Clearly, the role of prophets is paramount -- the fewer gods you have in your pantheon, the more prophets are required. And in such a system, there will always be more David Koreshs (again, a spelling error I'm sure) than Mohammeds.

(f) Litturgical distinctions become much more important when there is a single God. D&D is terrible for its disinterest in temple hierarchy and the physical practice of worship but clearly, this will be a crucial way to distinguish different branches of the faith.

(g) Finally, will you have a saint system? There are obvious pros and cons to this.

Best of luck!

 

[Oubliette]

I was going to have a little racial mixing between the churches (many demihumans living among humans converted, mainly)

I was also thinking of introducing a scism in the human religion that becomes a holy war. experiences?

 

[Oubliette]

I'm inclined not to use a saint system, as it seems to me that one very quickly falls back into the classic D&D model, just with an extra tier. Saints will exist, but not as saints of blank. More as major characters in the ongoing mythologies of the different sects.

Fusangite: Could you give me the Coles notes version of Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthoods?

And your absolutely correct on the structural point. For example, the human church (I really need some names) has an organization of wizards based on the Jesuits that will factor heavily in the plotline.

Xarlen: One of my favorite philosophy essays dicusses the theory that all religions are merely "lenses" with which we view the divine.

As for the more barbaric races, I was just going to use the Adept.