Monster advancement

[jaysprecious0917]

I am working on the final dungeon of my campaign and I found a template I want to use online, but I'm running into a slight issue. I am trying to take a level 5 elemental( fire, earth, water, ice, and lightning) and use the necromental template on them for the dungeon. I'm also looking at making them level 16-18 for purposes of a CR 20 battle. The issue I'm having is that I'm not finding any table for advancement of the base stats for bab, fort, reflex, and will saves. Perhaps I'm just overlooking it, but if anyone can help it would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[freyar]

Which edition?

 

[jaysprecious0917]

Pathfinder

 

[freyar]

OK, according to the necromental template, you recalculate the HD but not the BAB or saves. This is going to be a difference between the 3.5 template and Pathfinder rules, though, since 3.5 undead have d12 HD and Pathfinder undead have d8 HD. Here's my recommendation:

1) Start with the CR 11, 16HD elder elemental.
2) Advance to something like 22-24 HD and increase size to Gargantuan, following the Size Changes and Size Bonuses and Penalties tables. Put ability increases into Cha. Elementals are outsiders, so the PRD says to set BAB=HD and have two good saves. Those seem to be Fort and Will for most elementals.
3) Maybe switch from the average array to the standard array to decrease the elemental's Con and increase Cha.
4) Apply the necromental template, switching HD to d8s but adding bonus hp based on Cha.
5) Compare it to the tables to see if you have the right CR.

 

[jaysprecious0917]

I started off with the base creature, lvl 5 stats, because the stats for the necromental were CR 6. After I drew up the creature and made the changes into the necromental, I added 20 HD to it to increase it to CR 18 according to the pathfinder leveling guide...giving me a total of 28 HD for the monster. Then I adjusted the ability score +5 according to the guide for one state increase, and managed to calculate a BAB by using the traits guide showing that BAB is 10+1/2 of HD, or 10+14=24. Then I was able to calculate the cmb and cms using that. For the base saves, I went with the ediolon's base stats for lvl 18, and for added entertainment I gave the monster a breath weapon attack from a lvl 18 Dragon appropriate to its type...reducing the damage to match the damage from its regular attack. Seems to be working well.

 

[freyar]

Well, that all sounds reasonable, especially since monster design is more an art than science. But it's worth noting that necromental is a template, so you don't have to apply it to a creature of the same CR as was used for the sample. It's generally easier to advance a monster from the closest version in the rules, so I would have started with the largest elemental.