Monster attacks and advancement

[ciaran00]

I think I'm getting a little lost in what you are saying there ciaran. If I understand what you do correctly then when a creature with a natural attack progression of claw/claw/bite gains a BAB of 11 it would have attacks of
Claw +11/Claw +11/Bite +6/ ??? +1

Hmm. On second thought. I don't think your example is sinking in.

Claw/Claw routines are treated as a single attack. The bite that comes next is a SECOND attack. So if a monster has a class that gives him BAB +6/+1 then he applies +6 to his claws, then +1 to his bite.

ciaran

 

[ciaran00]

By the rule, natural attacks never improve. Look at the dread wraith (3.5), it has only one attack at +16 so it sucks a little bit at this level (10-12). In the other way if it could make 3 touch attacks at +16/+11/+6 that would be deadly (2d6 dmg + Fortitude DC25 vs 1d8 Constitution drain).

Aren't energy drain attacks restricted to 1/round?

EDIT: that's not what you're talking about, sorry. What is wrong with a bigger, badder Wraith with levels in monk or fighter?

ciaran

 

[D+1]

Ok. But here's the monkey wrench. What if the increase from BAB comes from class levels?

Natural weapon attacks and attacks with weapons are mostly kept seperate, so as you advance a monster its natural weapons certainly use the higher BAB, but don't get additional natural attacks because of it. Should that same monster use a sword then the BAB definitely does give it more iterative attacks with that sword.

It gets a bit muddy when you have natural attacks and monk unarmed attacks. 3.0 and 3.5 handle that differently; 3.0 incorporates natural attack damage with monk unarmed attack rates (see the FAQ) and 3.5 keeps them completely seperate (see the 3.5 MM) basically because the two editions handle unarmed attacks differently to begin with.

 

[D+1]

Claw/Claw routines are treated as a single attack. The bite that comes next is a SECOND attack. So if a monster has a class that gives him BAB +6/+1 then he applies +6 to his claws, then +1 to his bite.

Note that it can also be that the BITE is the primary, and the claw/claw the secondary. Depends on the design of the monster.

 

[Jubilex]

Aren't energy drain attacks restricted to 1/round?

I dont't think so:

ABILITY SCORE LOSS

Various attacks cause ability score loss, either ability damage or ability drain. Points lost to ability damage return at the rate of 1 point per day (or double that if the character gets complete bed rest) to each damaged ability, and the spells lesser restoration and restoration offset ability damage as well. Ability drain, however, is permanent, though restoration can restore even those lost ability score points.

While any loss is debilitating, losing all points in an ability score can be devastating.

• Strength 0 means that the character cannot move at all. He lies helpless on the ground.

• Dexterity 0 means that the character cannot move at all. He stands motionless, rigid, and helpless.

• Constitution 0 means that the character is dead.

• Intelligence 0 means that the character cannot think and is unconscious in a coma-like stupor, helpless.

• Wisdom 0 means that the character is withdrawn into a deep sleep filled with nightmares, helpless.

• Charisma 0 means that the character is withdrawn into a catatonic, coma-like stupor, helpless.

Keeping track of negative ability score points is never necessary. A character’s ability score can’t drop below 0.

Having a score of 0 in an ability is different from having no ability score whatsoever.

Some spells or abilities impose an effective ability score reduction, which is different from ability score loss. Any such reduction disappears at the end of the spell’s or ability’s duration, and the ability score immediately returns to its former value.

If a character’s Constitution score drops, then he loses 1 hit point per Hit Die for every point by which his Constitution modifier drops. A hit point score can’t be reduced by Constitution damage or drain to less than 1 hit point per Hit Die.

The ability that some creatures have to drain ability scores is a supernatural one, requiring some sort of attack. Such creatures do not drain abilities from enemies when the enemies strike them, even with unarmed attacks or natural weapons.

There's nothing about a limitation to 1/round.

EDIT: that's not what you're talking about, sorry. What is wrong with a bigger, badder Wraith with levels in monk or fighter?

There's nothing wrong, it would just be deadly for a CR11.

 

[Ahrimon]

1d4 isn't much for the claws. But when I was building the concept in my head I was planning on taking Improved natural weapons from the MM. Unfortunately I've discovered that it can only be taken once. It seems like this character concept is slowly circling the drain.

Oh well. Back to the drawing board.

Thanks again everyone.

Ahrimon.