Monster Creation

[Thoras]

Hi all,

I'm having trouble understanding a certain aspect of monster creation. I'm working on a level 1 adventure and want to tweak a few monsters to fit my idea of the fights better(changing weapons mainly and deleting powers), but I can't find a definite answer for an aspect of Monster Damage.

I have what I believe are the new damage expressions introduced in MM3(page 40 of the compiled updates), I have the DMG, I have the new monster vault etc. I spent about 2 hours last night searching forums, websites etc for an answer, but I can't find one that I'm entirely sure answers my question. I'm looking to find out whether or not Monster attacks follow the damage expressions for weapons. I.E. A club attack is 1d6, dagger 1d4 etc.

Or do the damage expressions only apply to 'powers'?

What is confusing me is that the new damage expressions suggest that a single attack for a lvl 1 monster should be 1d8 + 4 damage. I believe that would be an average of 8.5 damage. Looking through the monster vault though(which is supposed to use the new damage, right?), I have a Goblin Cutthroat. Short sword melee(1d6+5 or 2d6 + 5[8.5, 13])[Weapon appropriate dam dice] and a dagger ranged attack(1d4 + 5[7.5])[weapon appropriate].

Those are all fairly close to the suggested average damage, so is it just a matter of taking the weapon damage and then figuring out a +x to get the appropriate average damage suggested?

I can see how this might not make sense, I mean, [exaggeration]wouldn't you be looking at rolling 1d4 + 50 for a lvl 30 monsters dagger attack? Or would I actually just assign the suggested 4d8 + 20?

I had found one chart before that broke it down per lvl and included low, medium and high damage expressions, but I wasn't sure it fit the new damage rules.

 

[LostSoul]

There's no specific rule saying that monster damage has to follow weapon expressions. If you can, go for it, because it helps verisimilitude: "Why does his longsword do d10s while mine only does d8s?". There are answers for this ("He has special powers/feats; he can't use Daily Powers, or should I give him those too?"), but it's better if you can avoid the question.

It probably breaks down at higher levels but it's easier to handwave a GOD using an dagger and dealing 8d8 damage than it is for a goblin or bugbear.

 

[the Jester]

Monsters with weapons often, but not always, have damage expressions using the weapon's damage die.

There's no hard and fast rule, though.

 

[monboesen]

Monster attacks vs. a single target should do about monster lvl+8 damage.

Monster attacks vs. multiple targets should do about monster lvl+3 damage.

Other than verisimilitude theres absolutely no reason monsters should use weapon based damage expressions.

Personally I dislike d4's (annoying to roll and count) and d12's (to swingy) and rarely use them for damage expressions.

 

[the Jester]

Personally I dislike ... d12's

You are dead to me.

 

[Thoras]

Awesome, thanks for the help guys. I'll just have to run with that I guess and see where it gets me. I'll probably make sure to toss some examples up and get opinions once I get the whole thing worked out.

 

[monboesen]

You are dead to me.

Damn!

Can I redeem myself by revealing that I do use d12's fairly often for brutes.

I just like the idea of brutes swinging for the fences, sometimes just gracing their target and at other times send them flying.

And rolling 2 or 3d12 for damage seems to focus my players attention nicely.

 

[the Jester]

Damn!

Can I redeem myself by revealing that I do use d12's fairly often for brutes.

I just like the idea of brutes swinging for the fences, sometimes just gracing their target and at other times send them flying.

And rolling 2 or 3d12 for damage seems to focus my players attention nicely.

All right, good enough for me. I take it back.

d12s are my FAVORITE and always have been, and I have no idea why.

 

[Thoras]

Ok, I've taken the suggestions, stolen idea's from the monster vault and worked with the Monster Builder to put a few guys together, if anyone wouldn't mind giving some feedback.

 

[monboesen]

Most of it looks fine.

The few points that stick out are:

1. Brutes are supposed to do an extra 25% damage. It doesn't seem yours do.

2. Brutes should have lower AC (lvl+12).

3. It is usually soldiers that mark their targets, not brutes.

4. Encounter powers should do 50-75% extra damage. If they inflict nasty Status Effects I would keep the damage low. If they just do damage I would keep it high. This means that Agari's Battering Swing should do (lvl +8 = 9 * 1,25 (brute) * 1,5 (encounter power)) around 17 damage rather than the 12,5 your version does.

5. In my experience it is better in general to keep defenses on the low side.

For a 1st level brute each defense starts at 13 and then I would move a couple of points around (like shaving 2 points of the Will defense and increasing Fortitude defense by the same amount). Ending up with AC 13, Fort 15, Refl 13, Will 11.

So I'll always keep the sum of the defenses equal to the four base numbers added together.


If you haven't got the baseline its as follows.

For Skirmisher, Lurkers and Leaders
AC lvl+14, Other defenses lvl+12

For Soldiers
AC lvl+16, Other defenses lvl+12

For Brutes and Artillery
AC lvl+12, Other defenses lvl+12