Monster Design--from a designer's standpoint

[Orcus]

Nah, just looks like the math is off by 2 there. But, really, I doubt they're at the 'verifying the math' stage of this, nor should they be without rules.

Yeah, we are no where near the math stage, for the crits.

 

[Zinegata]

I'll believe it when I see it, but the signs are good.

 

[Orcus]

It certainly seems much easier to design new monsters in 4e than in 3e.

Do they use the same progression by level for attacks, saves and skill bonuses as characters? That would seem the easiest way to make sure the monster has the level you want it to have.

How do you instead calculate how many XP it is worth?

The monsters provided give some guide. The XP progression was relatively simple to work out. Same with the formula for HP based on role and level. I dont know how size plays into it yet, though. You'd think a Tiny Level 6 Soldier would have fewer hp than a Large Level 6 Soldier, and not just cause of CON. But that doesnt seem to be the case, though we dont have enough data yet. There doesnt seem to be a rigid attack and damage bonues for monsters, though the general bonus is pretty easy to work out from the examples. I think there will be some generally accepted ranges provided (ie 10th level skirmisher should do about 30 hp damage per attack, as a hypothetical example not based in fact just pulling it out of my butt, where as a brute would do X and a lurker would do Y.)

Clearly we arent at the hard math stage yet. We are at teh concepting stage.

And already we can take a boring old monster that never found itself (the bonesnapper) and turn it into a monster you say "hey, i would use that."

You should see what we are coming up with for monsters that were cool to start with...like our charfiend and the crystaline horror.

 

[Orcus]

The bonesnapper really got me thinking about mechanics. About what we can and cant do. 3E was all about what you cant do. I think 4E will be about what you can do.

For instance. I want the bonesnapper bite to cause a slow effect on a crit, simulating that he broke a leg or arm with his bite. Here is where the mechanic comes in--I dont want it to end on a successful save. I want to say "until healed". Healing surge, magic, whatever. But a save alone isnt enough to overcome the effect. Now, in 3E that type of deviation from a rigid mechanic would get you burned at the stake. For 4E, it just might work. Still, we'll have to see.

But 4E is sure getting me thinking outside the 3E box and it is making for much cooler monsters.

 

[Steely Dan]

Now if only 4e and related supplements could be released sooner... I really need a genie.

Here you go:


EFREETI Level 10 Skirmisher
Large elemental humanoid (Fire)

Init +7; Senses Perception +17; darkvision


AC 24; Fort 23, Ref 20, Will 19
HP 70
Resist fire 30
Weakness vulnerability cold 5


Speed 4, fly 8 (perfect)
m Masterwork Scimitar (standard; at-will) * Fire, Weapon
Reach 2; +17 vs. AC; 2d6+12 damage plus 5 fire damage.
M Double Attack (standard; at-will) * Fire, Weapon
The efreeti attacks twice with the scimitar.
R Scorching Ray (minor 1/round; at-will) * Fire
Range 10; +13 vs. Ref; 4d6 fire damage.
R Wall of Fire (standard; at-will) * Fire
Area burst 6 within 10; create a wall of fire 6 contiguous squares long and 2 squares high. Any creature passing though the wall takes 3d6 fire damage, and any creature that begins its turn adjacent to the wall takes 1d6 fire damage.
A Change Size (standard; encounter) * Transmutation
Area burst 1 within 10; +7 vs. Fort; reduce or enlarge target creature. If the target is reduced, lower its speed by 2, and the target takes a -4 penalty on all melee attacks and damage (save ends both).
Change Shape (standard; at-will) * Transmutation
The efreeti can assume the form of any Small, Medium, or Large humanoid or giant.

Alignment Lawful Evil Languages telepathy 20; Auran, Common, Ignan, Infernal, Jaanti
Skills Intimidate +12, Perception +17, Stealth +18
Str 23 (+11), Con 14 (+7), Dex 17 (+8), Int 12 (+6), Wis 15 (+7), Cha 15 (+7)

 

[keterys]

You could make the tail slap a secondary attack on the bite if you wanted to streamline the stat block some more - though, that would let it do it on more than one attack a round under some situations, whereas your way doesn't.

I need to find a mailing list or something for making monsters. Want to talk about it more, but don't really have folks into chatting up those kind of things. I love seeing the comments to each other on the monster above.

 

[Spatula]

How do you instead calculate how many XP it is worth?

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=220538

HP ruminations:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=220439
(pretty sure controllers are 8 hp/lvl though)

 

[keterys]

You could also have the bonesnap effect trigger on bloodied instead of a critical hit, and last until the target is no longer bloodied.

 

[Orcus]

You could make the tail slap a secondary attack on the bite if you wanted to streamline the stat block some more - though, that would let it do it on more than one attack a round under some situations, whereas your way doesn't.

I need to find a mailing list or something for making monsters. Want to talk about it more, but don't really have folks into chatting up those kind of things. I love seeing the comments to each other on the monster above.

My little project with the bonesnapper was to read its initial description from the Fiend Folio, which said "The large jaw contains many sharp teeth which it uses to inflict 1-8 hit points of damage in melee; at the same time, the tail sweeps round to deliver 1-4 hit points of damage on the same victim." An d then find a way to actually make that descriptive text come to life in a way that makes the monster cool and unique.

The only "mechanic" for this in the original is that text plus "1-8/1-4" in the "damage/attack" line of the monster entry.

There was no good way to simulate that in 3E (well, there was, but it was boring).

Yes, in 4E I could have just let it attack with both. But that was just a double attack.

This way, if he bites, he then swings around with a freebie tail pimpslap. To me, that is more memorable and more fun and also plays on the theme that this guy has a big mouth and big teeth, so when he bits you it kind of holds you a bit and sets you up for the tail slap--which made it make more sense to me that he only gets the bonus one when he actually bites you successfully.

The freedom and flexibility of 4E really makes you able to breathe life into a pretty stale monster.

Heck, Scott and I picked that one on purpose cause we actually WERE NOT going to include it in our book. We had decided to cut it. So we said, hey, lets see what we can do with one we didnt even think was cool enough to keep. (Of course, now we want to include it; we'll have to wait to see if WotC lets it happen).

Clark

 

[Orcus]

You could also have the bonesnap effect trigger on bloodied instead of a critical hit, and last until the target is no longer bloodied.

Yeah, that isnt that bad of an idea. One of the cool things about 4E is finding those "threshold" events that cause a change in the monster or a power. The bloodied condition is a good one for that.