Monster names as PI

[The Sigil]

Actually the PI is a means to list things that are copyright, trademark, patent. Things one has rights and title to.

names, titles, short phrases and so forth are not copyrightable, depending on how their being used they can be trademarked though.

the monster names dragon, bone demon, beholder and so on can not be copyrighted though the name of a individual monster of such types could be trademarked. Just like the word wizard is not copyrightable nor is Wizard of the Coast, though its a trademark/servicemark so is protected under trademark law.

Wrong. PI is any term, name, or whatever that the company wants to list, trademarked, copyrighted, or whatever. It is defined as such in the Open Game License.

As part of the OGL, you agree, when using another's OGC, not to use term on the list that that person has listed as PI. This is part of the "grant and consideration" inherent in the OGL. See my reply to you here in another thread for more details on why this is important:

Here is the rest of what you need regarding PI.

Again, note that the OGL specifically says, "you can call these thigns PI" - it doesn't say, "you can call these copyrighted things PI."

The moment you use someone else's OGC in a manner normally forbidden by copyright law (e.g., creating a derivative work, copying it, etc.), you agree to the terms of the OGL. The moment you agree to the OGL, you also agree not to mention things that the person listed as PI (even though copyright law allows you to do so). Whether or not the terms are copyrightable has no bearing on the matter.

As a simpler example:

I agree to give you five dollars. In return, you agree never to use the word "Sigil" in a post on ENWorld. Is this a valid contract? Yes... I gave you something of value (five bucks) and you gave me something of value (a guarantee that you personally will not dilute by use the word, "sigil" - which lack of dilution I value, for whatever odd reason).

If you take the five dollars, and then use the word "Sigil" in a post - even if you're referring to "a wizard's sigil" or "a word alphabetically between red and zebra" - even though copyright law allows you to do so (it's a name) - you are in breach of contract and you have to give me my five dollars back.

Similarly, if you take OGC, and then use a PI'd word in your work, you are in breach of contract and you have to give the OGC back (you stop using it).

Does that make it a little simpler?

--The Sigil

 

[S'mon]

My impression is that 'Product Identity' covers more than what's protectable under IP law. You don't have to use the OGL if you don't want to:

From http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html

"WHAT IS NOT PROTECTED BY COPYRIGHT?
Several categories of material are generally not eligible for federal copyright protection. These include among others:

Titles, names, short phrases, and slogans; familiar symbols or designs; mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering, or coloring; mere listings of ingredients or contents

Ideas, procedures, methods, systems, processes, concepts, principles, discoveries, or devices, as distinguished from a description, explanation, or illustration."

This covers most of what you actually need to write a scenario or supplement - monster names, words like 'AC' and 'Ref Save', etc. However it doesn't let you rip a whole stat block from the Monster Manual.

Trademark infringement normally depends on likelihood of confusion, so a disclaimer ought to suffice.

 

[S'mon]

Derivative Works - from Title 17 chapter 1:

"A “derivative work” is a work based upon one or more preexisting works, such as a translation, musical arrangement, dramatization, fictionalization, motion picture version, sound recording, art reproduction, abridgment, condensation, or any other form in which a work may be recast, transformed, or adapted. A work consisting of editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other modifications, which, as a whole, represent an original work of authorship, is a “derivative work”."

Note that although publishers commonly treat _characters_ (Superman, Driz'zt, Captain Picard) and universes (Star Trek, Hyborea) as Intellectual Property, there doesn't seem to be a statutory basis for this sort of claim - not that I can find, anyway.

 

[S'mon]

From the FAQ:

Can I copyright the name of my band?
No. Names are not protected by copyright law. Some names may be protected under trademark law. Contact the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office, 800-786-9199, for further information.

How do I copyright a name, title, slogan or logo?
Copyright does not protect names, titles, slogans, or short phrases. In some cases, these things may be protected as trademarks. Contact the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office, 800-786-9199, for further information. However, copyright protection may be available for logo artwork that contains sufficient authorship. In some circumstances, an artistic logo may also be protected as a trademark.

How do I protect my idea?
Copyright does not protect ideas, concepts, systems, or methods of doing something. You may express your ideas in writing or drawings and claim copyright in your description, but be aware that copyright will not protect the idea itself as revealed in your written or artistic work.

 

[Grazzt]

Tome Rules!

It is kinda cool, isn't it?

And as for asking permission to use PI names, its not that much of a pain. Simply email, write, or call said company (or person) and ask permission. Easily done.

And I know lots of companies that have no problems with granting permission so long as you don't release the names as OGC in your book. So, just ask.

 

[rpgHQ]

anyhow my point is if the only thing he is taking from their resource is the monster names he doesnt need to include a ogc/ogl statement. However if he is 'reprinting' the monsters descriptive text...like having a monster section inthe back of a module/adventure, or anything not dealing with the game mechanics, then he needs to use the OGL and cant use the monster name, or whaever else they have PI'd under OGL and needs to get permission.

 

[Gez]

How about "Eighteenth creature from ISBN xxxxx-xxxxx-x".

Great thing, it also avoids the problem of translated books (for example, you may find Traps & Treachery in French, under the same (untranslated) title).

But it's always better to ask for permission. First, it'll let the authors know you're going to use their stuff (and that's great because it's good form to get them informed of that, and it will also stroke their ego). Then, it'll help you fight off your shyness.

 

[Grinning Loony]

Thanks, everyone!