Monster Summoning question...

Dwarmaj

First Post
The spell says...

This spell summons an extraplanar creature (typically an outsider, elemental, or magical beast native to another plane). It appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn. It attacks your opponents to the best of its ability. If you can communicate with the creature, you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions.
The spell conjures one of the creatures from the 1st-level list on the accompanying Summon Monster table. You choose which kind of creature to summon, and you can change that choice each time you cast the spell.
A summoned monster cannot summon or otherwise conjure another creature, nor can it use any teleportation or planar travel abilities. Creatures cannot be summoned into an environment that cannot support them.

1) How does the summoned creature know who is an opponant and who is an ally?
2) The spell states that the creature will attack to the best of it's abilities. But who decides what attack routines the creature will make? If a cleric summoned a Dire Bat against a mage, would the bat attempt to grapple the mage or would it bite?
3) If the summoned creatuer killed it's primary target, would it move to the nearest opponant or just stand there if you can't communicate with it?
 

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I always assumed it could tell which were enemies and which were allies in the same magical way Bless spells could. They just know. If that doesn't work for you, then have them attack anybody who attacks the caster or whom the caster attacks.

The verbal communication is primarily for if you want to do more creative things with your creature, like have them use their special abilities to overcome some non-combat obsticle. This is, by the way, to me, the best reason to grab languages like Terran and Auran.
 

Dwarmaj said:
1) How does the summoned creature know who is an opponant and who is an ally?
2) The spell states that the creature will attack to the best of it's abilities. But who decides what attack routines the creature will make? If a cleric summoned a Dire Bat against a mage, would the bat attempt to grapple the mage or would it bite?
3) If the summoned creatuer killed it's primary target, would it move to the nearest opponant or just stand there if you can't communicate with it?

As you have surmised, the description in the PHB under Summon Monster (and on page 172-73) do not fully answer your questions. OTOH, your questions, to an extent do not need to be answered.

1.) 'Why' and 'how' are not relevant. The summoned creature does know who to attack. That much is clear from the spell description. There are many things about summoning that are not explained (ie; how the creature travels across the planes, why its spells end when it leaves, etc ...) This is just one of those things. If you need an explanation, I'd suggest that you settle upon divine instruction. On the way across the planes, the beastie is given the information by a divine agent.

2.) Technically, the summoned creature is an NPC under the control of the DM. Most DMs allow a player to control monsters summoned by their PC. Although a PC may direct the creature if the PC can speak with the creature, the DM is supposed to control it. In other words, if a PC directs his summoned elemental to kill an enemy, the DM is the one that decides if the elemental does this by directly attacking the PC or by using an indirect attack on the support beam that is keeping the ceiling from falling on the enemy.

3.) The description says that the creature attacks your opponents. It should continue to attack after the first enemy falls. As long as there are opponents in range.
 

jgsugden said:
1.) 'Why' and 'how' are not relevant. The summoned creature does know who to attack. That much is clear from the spell description.

What's not clear, of course, is "What defines an opponent?".

Is it the emotional feeling of the caster towards the creature in question?

The intentions of the creature in question?

The actions of the creature in question?

The whim of the caster?

If there is a doppelganger planning to attack the cleric next round, who is currently masquerading as the cleric's friend, is he an opponent?

If the cleric's real friend is under an illusion that makes him look like a demon, even if he doesn't have any intention of harming the cleric, but the cleric believes he's really a demon, is he an opponent?

If there's a real invisible demon sneaking up towards the cleric, and the cleric doesn't know he's there, and the summoned creature can see invisible, is the real invisible demon an opponent?

If the cleric thinks it would be amusing to see a celestial badger gnaw on his good friend's ankle, is the good friend an opponent?

-Hyp.
 

Dwarmaj said:
1) How does the summoned creature know who is an opponant and who is an ally?
2) The spell states that the creature will attack to the best of it's abilities. But who decides what attack routines the creature will make? If a cleric summoned a Dire Bat against a mage, would the bat attempt to grapple the mage or would it bite?
3) If the summoned creatuer killed it's primary target, would it move to the nearest opponant or just stand there if you can't communicate with it?

1) How about pointing?

2-3) It seems like the easiest ruling is to just let the player control the monster attacks fully. If the player wants some non-combat option, then they must be able to communicate. I expect that's how most people play it.
 

Hypersmurf said:
What's not clear, of course, is "What defines an opponent?".

Is it the emotional feeling of the caster towards the creature in question?

The intentions of the creature in question?

The actions of the creature in question?

The whim of the caster?

If there is a doppelganger planning to attack the cleric next round, who is currently masquerading as the cleric's friend, is he an opponent?

If the cleric's real friend is under an illusion that makes him look like a demon, even if he doesn't have any intention of harming the cleric, but the cleric believes he's really a demon, is he an opponent?

If there's a real invisible demon sneaking up towards the cleric, and the cleric doesn't know he's there, and the summoned creature can see invisible, is the real invisible demon an opponent?

If the cleric thinks it would be amusing to see a celestial badger gnaw on his good friend's ankle, is the good friend an opponent?

-Hyp.

Good questions. Ask your DM.

The rules can't cover everything. There are too many hypotheticals for the rules to come close to being that 'complete'.

OTOH: If you're looking for some guidance, the spell specifies that an undirected creature will attack 'opponents' - not 'enemies'. There is a subtle difference in the words. Opponents infers an active opposition. To me, a summoned creature would attack anything that is in an active hostile role against the caster or against an obvious ally of the caster.

That is just my opinion, though. I can certainly see a DM ruling that anyone with negative intent towards the caster is an 'opponent', so I can see a DM ruling that a summoned creature would attack someone that is cheating the caster in a game of cards.

There are some pretty big holes in the 3.5 rules that need to be patched. I would not call this a big hole. It is a rather small hole. Any DM should be able to come up with a good patch for it.
 

jgsugden said:
OTOH: If you're looking for some guidance, the spell specifies that an undirected creature will attack 'opponents' - not 'enemies'. There is a subtle difference in the words. Opponents infers an active opposition.

Yeah - I must admit, it's probably easier to adjudicate than Bless and Bane :)

-Hyp.
 

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