Monster tactics 101?

[Dausuul]

Level 2 knight at 24 AC seems off. And make sure you are using MM3 damage expressions.

The AC does seem a bit high. As already stated, he's got +2 plate, which is worth +10. Add to that +1 for level, +2 for a heavy shield, and you get to 23... but I don't see how he reaches 24.

Anyway, I'd say your problem here is simple: Your encounters are too low-level for your group. 4E can tell you how powerful a gang of monsters is relative to an average group of PCs (with the occasional botch like that Dark Sun encounter). What it can't do is tell you how well-optimized your particular PCs are, or how tactically savvy the players are.

Some groups find that a level+0 encounter is a good fight and level+1 is challenging. Other groups need tougher opposition. The PCs in my Paragon-tier campaign had a yawnfest if I hit them with anything less than level+3. Level+4 was required to make them sweat. And that was using MM3 and Monster Vault.

My suggestion is to crank up the difficulty one level at a time and see how they do. If level+1 seems too easy, try them at level+2. If they blow through that, go for level+3, and so on until you find the right "set point."

 

[Nullzone]

When it comes to tuning, try not to exploit player weaknesses; the players will often see through this and realize they're just being taken advantage of. Instead, exploit monster strengths:

-Make the combat area (most of it, at least) difficult terrain but use monsters that fly or have terrainwalk/phasing.

- Include some kind of terrain CA granting mechanism and use skirmishers that get extra damage dice when they have CA. This works nicely because it's impartial and the players may get an edge out of it as well, but it's much easier than trying to flank all the time.

- Use a synergy of monsters like ghouls+zombies; the zombies go in and hit stuff to daze or immobilize it, then the ghouls come in and bite for big damage (and stun, but be careful with that too).

- Get some kind of effect rolling that turns a no-big-deal element into a whoa-crap one; 5 fire damage reflected from a red dragon's burning blood is one thing, vulnerable 5 fire on top of that now makes a serious threat.

Here's one you wouldn't necessarily expect at first glance: make your monsters as aggressive as possible, even at the expense of defensive tactics. If your best attacks are ranged but you're in the defender's face and can't get away, who cares? Fire them anyway! If you get extra damage from charging but you're going to run by 3 people to do it, who cares? Charge!

The OAs make players feel empowered and creates a tension at the table in case of misses. The result, especially as you level up and an MBA isn't taking out half a monster's hit points, is that monster becomes a lot more dangerous and the players can no longer simply look at one monster at a time as the only "threatening" creature in the combat. This goes for ignoring marks, too; the defender can enforce his mark and feel like he's providing some real contribution to the party. This does take a certain amount of instinctive experience to know when to apply different circumstances (ex: a mindless creature isn't necessarily going to ignore a mark if the PC that marked it is in its face), but just experiment a bit, see what feels right.

It's all in the combined applications of the encounter as a whole. Adding another monster or two helps smooth out edges but it's not really a good solution to increasing difficulty. Usually the only time I add more monsters is when they seem to be blowing through an encounter and feel they could put a little more effort into it (though you have to mind your player resources when doing this; adding monsters that will just be subject to an at-will fest is not a good use of anyone's time).

 

[Havrik Stoneskimmer]

The AC does seem a bit high. As already stated, he's got +2 plate, which is worth +10. Add to that +1 for level, +2 for a heavy shield, and you get to 23... but I don't see how he reaches 24.

Plate +2 is worth 11 in Heroes of the Fallen Lands because it gives you a +9 armor bonus (as opposed to the +8 for ordinary plate armor) and the +2 enhancement bonus. They smoothed out the bonus curve of masterwork armor in this book, so that each plus of magic is also accompanied by an increase in the basic armor bonus. The original PHB plate armor would stay at +8 until you got to +4 armor where it jumps to a +11 armor bonus.

I'll try bumping up the level, which will be nice because we're only a 4 person party. They have a L+5 encounter coming up for the big end of this adventure and I expect that one might have them on the ropes a bit.

Thanks for all the great advice; there's a lot of good stuff here to think about.

 

[Kelvor Ravenstar]

He has AC 24 because magical plate armor automatically includes the bonus for masterwork armor once it reaches +2 enhancement bonus in the online character builder. So that's an additional +1 to AC.

I think this +2 plate is part of the problem with challenging the party. Going by the treasure distribution rules in both the DMG and the Rules Compendium, the earliest he should get a +2 item is level two, because items aren't given out that are above the character level plus 4. His AC is just a little bit high, but its not too bad for the monsters. Any monsters attacking the knight should take whatever opportunity they can to attack with combat advantage, or if they can't shift to get CA, have the minions give aid another to the bigger monster attack rolls.

You'll find that his AC will quickly become less of a problem, since it is not going to go up again until level 4. By which point the monsters to-hits will have increased by 2 points, and they will be hitting him more often.

You asked about monster tactics, so here are some easy suggestions. If you can figure out the placement to make it work, charging into a flanking position gives monsters a +3 to hit over their normal attack.

Minions don't usually have interesting attack powers, so put one near each of your bigger monsters. That way, when their attack isn't likely to be that effective, have them take their standard actions to roll Heal checks on the big monsters. You can give the monsters extra saving throws against irritating status effects dealt out by your controller and leader.

Use minions with good ranged attacks, or do interesting things when they die. A defender can shrug off minion attacks if its just a few, but 3 or more hits from minions to a controller could put them close to bloody on the first turn. Or, if your controller has powers that reduce the attack effectiveness, like Shield, using it to prevent the minion attacks won't hurt your average damage much, but if they decide not to use it, the minion plinks will build up. Position minions so they have at least 2 squares between them some of the time. This really irritates controllers as they can't get more than one or two in their area burst one attacks.

Use a good variety of monster rolls, but use less controller monsters unless they are elites. They don't usually stick around. I'm a big fan of skirmishers and brutes, and try to use soldiers sparingly. Don't bother with lurkers unless the encounter area has lots of good cover to use for hiding, or use lurkers that can do things like phase through the floor.

But, a suggestion about treasure distribution. Consider not giving out the straight + enhancement modifier magic items early. Its more fun to get an item with a neat property or power, and their higher level will mean they show up in treasure distribution during a level where that extra 5% difference in attack is less likely to alter your games balance.

 

[Dausuul]

Plate +2 is worth 11 in Heroes of the Fallen Lands because it gives you a +9 armor bonus (as opposed to the +8 for ordinary plate armor) and the +2 enhancement bonus. They smoothed out the bonus curve of masterwork armor in this book, so that each plus of magic is also accompanied by an increase in the basic armor bonus. The original PHB plate armor would stay at +8 until you got to +4 armor where it jumps to a +11 armor bonus.

Ahh, my mistake. I didn't realize the masterwork adjustments kicked in so early now. That would explain it then.

I'll try bumping up the level, which will be nice because we're only a 4 person party. They have a L+5 encounter coming up for the big end of this adventure and I expect that one might have them on the ropes a bit.

Level+5? Wow. That might be going a little far. Try them out on a level+3 first and see how they do. You don't want to overcompensate and have a TPK.

 

[Havrik Stoneskimmer]

Level+5? Wow. That might be going a little far. Try them out on a level+3 first and see how they do. You don't want to overcompensate and have a TPK.

Maybe... they did fine on a L+3 back at 1st level. I think the knight briefly bounced off the ground for half a round until the warpriest healed him, but other than that it wasn't too bad. To date that was the only time they have had someone fall unconscious. Maybe I'll try L+4 rather than 5.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Another option for you to use is special terrain features... difficult terrain (as someone suggested above) but also terrain or features that lower attack rolls, lower damage rolls, lower defenses, increase enemy stats and the like.

So for instance you can have arcane energy motes floating in the battle area that have an Aura 1 which reduces the effectiveness of armor by 2 (a magical rusting effect or whatever kind of fluff description you want to give). Then your monsters direct the battle towards these motes so that the PCs lose 2 points off their AC, but the monsters (who don't wear armor but have just a natural armor class) aren't affected.

The advantage of this kind of thing is that you get the results you want to make the PCs more vulnerable... but also get to challenge them by setting up situations where there's a chance they won't get affected (by making them change tactics to avoid the motes for example).

A PC losing -2 to attack rolls because of monster powers are interesting on occasion... but losing -2 half the time because of monster powers, and half the time because of terrain or trap features I believe is even more interesting because it changes things up.

 

[Herschel]

He has a 24 AC because I just gave him plate +2, which might have been a little dumb on my part if I'm annoyed by not being able to hit him. But I figured I'd give him some toys to help him do his job even better.

Yeah, +2 is pretty swanky for a level 2 character but there's still an extra point of AC from somewhere. Did he "write in" one of teh masterwork armors too?

 

[Herschel]

Plate +2 is worth 11 in Heroes of the Fallen Lands because it gives you a +9 armor bonus (as opposed to the +8 for ordinary plate armor) and the +2 enhancement bonus. They smoothed out the bonus curve of masterwork armor in this book, so that each plus of magic is also accompanied by an increase in the basic armor bonus. The original PHB plate armor would stay at +8 until you got to +4 armor where it jumps to a +11 armor bonus.

Really, it kicks in faster now? I'm hating Essentials more and more all the time.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

Really, it kicks in faster now? I'm hating Essentials more and more all the time.

It's been that way since Adventurer's Vault. Layered Plate gives +9 armour bonus starting at +2 enhancement (or you could get rimefire with resist 1 all and only +8). This improved scaling was introduced for all heavy armours in AV. This is nothing new.