Monster Vault

[Old Gumphrey]

The Huge Carrion Crawler is also very similar except for the damages - the attack that's now a 2d12 + 12 was a 1d4+5 in the MM1, absolutely pathetic in a 17th level monster. Interestingly, much of the 'controller' effects are blunted in this new version of the monster. For example, the Monster Builder version imposes a -5 to saves versus its stuns, which was fairly brutal. That penalty doesn't appear in the new version.

The monster's damage for a standard action is 2d12+2d6+20+pull 1+ongoing 10 poison and slowed. It's also a soldier, not a controller, so I would imagine that 'blunts' most of its controller effects.

 

[keterys]

Plus it gained threatening reach... it's basically doing triple the damage that it used to do. Which is a good thing, cause its damage was way too low before.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Shame because they swore there won't be a 4.5. In my opinion, Wizard kinda lied and are doing 4.5 in disguise, but it's just my opinion, feel free to disagree. I just dislike the way it smells.

I have nothing against a x.5 edition. 3.5 was cool and the best thing happened to 3E, 4.5 can be as cool.

And yet... you LIKE the changes to the system.

Should Wizards just have said, "You know what, screw it, we're never updating those core monsters no matter how much design we've implemented in MM2 and MM3."

 

[avin]

And yet... you LIKE the changes to the system.

Should Wizards just have said, "You know what, screw it, we're never updating those core monsters no matter how much design we've implemented in MM2 and MM3."

Yes, I like the changes.

No, I don't like companies saying "we won't do 4.5" and then doing.

Some people here applaud every step Wizards or Paizo take. I don't. That's it, now accept it as my opinion and let this topic move on, please.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I accept it. I'm just baffled by the liking and hating at the same time.

For the monsters, prior to the essentials, there was a lot of changes via the MM2 and MM3. Do you think that there would have been a realistic way of getting those changes to people that would work better than the Monster Vault?

I can see reprinting the MM1 but I can hear the screams of people clamoring thati t's a money grab. While Monster Vault isn't free, it is a little more coming with an adventure and monster tokens.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I accept it. I'm just baffled by the liking and hating at the same time.

It sounds to me (and I'm not avin) like this:

WotC: "Hey, everybody, no one is getting any pie."
Folks: "Well, I guess."
WotC: "Hey, everybody, we're all getting fruit-filled pastries."
Folks: "But you said we weren't getting any pie."
WotC: "This isn't pie. We said we wouldn't give you pie, and we're not giving you pie. We're not giving you pie. This is a fruit-filled pastry."
Folks: "Um, I like it and all, but aren't you being a little insane?"
WotC: "Ssshhhh, marketing will hear you. Quickly, eat this fruit-filled pastry."
Folks: "Well okay. I do like pie. Just call it a pie, you nimrods."
WotC: "IT IS NOT A PIE! You're going to make Rich Baker cry. Stop it!"
Folks: "But it's a pie."
WotC: "Look at Rich Baker's tears! Look at what you've done! Now he is going to be sad! Why did you make Rich Baker sad, you jerk?"
Folks: "Um...I didn't mean to. Can I have some pie now?"
WotC: "ARGH!"

 

[JoeGKushner]

No, I honestly get that some people want to call it 4.5. No problem there. But in terms of updating the monsters...

1. Only update them through the DDI. Yeah, I don't see that going well.

2. Update the MM and reprint it. Don't see that going well.

3. Provide a PDF of it free. Since they have zero PDF's, don't see that happening.

To me, it's a good move on the monster side of things.

 

[Amphimir Míriel]

While I agree that the plethora of rules updates, if compiled into new products, would normally be called a new edition, I applaud WotC's decision to at least try to package them differently and with some additional goodies (adventures, tiles, tokens) that many people will want.

So, call it 4.5, zucchini, 4E+, whatever... They are attractive products

(me, I'm calling it 4.2 )

 

[Joshua Randall]

Klaus(dio) -- since I can never figure out Fiery Dragon's website, do Paragon 2 and Epic 2 exist in printed form?

I think one of the Fiery Dragons told me (e-mail) that they remove listings from the website when the item is out of stock. So I don't know if P2/E2 exist but are out of stock, or don't exist yet. Argh!

 

[Klaus]

Klaus(dio) -- since I can never figure out Fiery Dragon's website, do Paragon 2 and Epic 2 exist in printed form?

I think one of the Fiery Dragons told me (e-mail) that they remove listings from the website when the item is out of stock. So I don't know if P2/E2 exist but are out of stock, or don't exist yet. Argh!

P2, E2 and H3 are waiting for me to finish P3 and E3 so the entire family can go to the printers together for a picnic.

A picnic, in this case, that features water tiles and lava tiles (hey, I had to fill out the pages).