Monster Vault

[Markn]

I hate to rain on anyone's "this is 4.5!" parade, but the version of the Gauth featured in the Ampersand article is virtually identical to the one already appearing in the Monster Builder; his melee to-hit has actually gone down from +12 to +10, and he's gotten a +2 damage to his fire ray.

The Huge Carrion Crawler is also very similar except for the damages - the attack that's now a 2d12 + 12 was a 1d4+5 in the MM1, absolutely pathetic in a 17th level monster. Interestingly, much of the 'controller' effects are blunted in this new version of the monster. For example, the Monster Builder version imposes a -5 to saves versus its stuns, which was fairly brutal. That penalty doesn't appear in the new version.

So it seems like anyone who has the Monster Builder has these monsters in their new format already, just without the new MM3 era math applied. That's an easy change. And will be corrected when the Adventure Tools essentials update happens. So for those not interested in tokens, this is probably a totally skippable product.

This. I am deeply disappointed with the monster preview. I was expecting the monsters to a lot more dynamic, and simply put, they aren't. Those two monsters just don't feel like Elite's to me - they don't do enough. Hell, I thought even giving the eye rays different ranges (some longer than others) would present more options for using the Gauth. I was originally stoked to by this...now not so much.

 

[Almacov]

The most dramatic shift here is the amount of flavour text - and this isn't even including the text relating to specific beholder types.
The writing is also a heck of a lot more evocative than the MM text, which said
"Few monsters evoke greater terror than the dread beholder, an avaricious tyrant that fires terrible rays from its eyestalks."
- I'm not sure that's a sufficient explanation of why they're top of the "scary" pile on this plane.

This new text is.

 

[Scribble]

Are we loosing the knowledge check entries?

That kind of sucks.

 

[TerraDave]

But nothing has changed to make the old monsters less effective or fun then they were in the past.

They still remain just as effective as they always were.

I hope this is irony.

The Huge Carrion Crawler is also very similar except for the damages - the attack that's now a 2d12 + 12 was a 1d4+5 in the MM1, absolutely pathetic in a 17th level monster. Interestingly, much of the 'controller' effects are blunted in this new version of the monster. For example, the Monster Builder version imposes a -5 to saves versus its stuns, which was fairly brutal. That penalty doesn't appear in the new version.

These are ".5" changes. Presumably you get all of these in DDI, if you subscribe to it.

The most dramatic shift here is the amount of flavour text here - and this isn't even including the text relating to specific beholder types.
The writing is also a heck of a lot more evocative than the MM text, which said
"Few monsters evoke greater terror than the dread beholder, an avaricious tyrant that fires terrible rays from its eyestalks."
- I'm not sure that's a sufficient explanation of why they're top of the "scary" pile on this plane.

This new text is.

Yes.

 

[I'm A Banana]

• Flavor Text: Cool
• Enorminator: Cool
• Statblock Update: Cool
• Verdict: Pretty cool!

I might've liked some rules for adjudicating the situation where the PC's decide to pretend to be subservient to the Beholder instead of fight it, but this gives me everything that every other edition gave me, PLUS ways to actually use it out of the box at the table, and the Enorminator is lots of cool, so I'm fairly content.

 

[Joshua Randall]

This looks good. I kinda wish there were a version without the tokens, though.

Feel free to send your unwanted tokens to me. I can't get enough of 'em.

 

[Shroomy]

Feel free to send your unwanted tokens to me. I can't get enough of 'em.

Yeah, the tokens are probably the biggest selling point for me since I'll get all of the stat blocks from DDI anyways. The addition of a new adventure is also pretty cool.

 

[Scribble]

I hope this is irony.

Please explain to me what has changed about the rules that makes your old monsters no longer as effective as they were when you bought them?

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Please explain to me what has changed about the rules that makes your old monsters no longer as effective as they were when you bought them?

For one thing: The players. More options, a small amount of legitimate power creep, and a whole lot of system mastery tend to combine to form a lot of trivialized MM1 monsters. (EDIT: On reflection, probably not "a lot." More like "some" but perhaps I'm splitting hairs.)

That and the flat out poor planning on some of them that makes them simply less fun than they could be, though that's much less objective and more preference. But you have to admit... the designers have picked up a few tricks since MM1, too. The MM1 monsters aren't reliably BAD. Just not as good as they could be if redone now with better damage and action economy.

 

[Scribble]

For one thing: The players. More options, a small amount of legitimate power creep, and a whole lot of system mastery tend to combine to form a lot of trivialized MM1 monsters.

Well- I'd have to check on that but ok... I'm not sure I'd consider that really any different then any power creep... And if you consider power creep an edition update... That seems kind of drastic doesn't it?

That and the flat out poor planning on some of them that makes them simply less fun than they could be, though that's much less objective and more preference. But you have to admit... the designers have picked up a few tricks since MM1, too. The MM1 monsters aren't reliably BAD. Just not as good as they could be if redone now with better damage and action economy.

Sure- but that's sort of my point.

Nothing about the new monster design ideas have invalidated or changed anything about the old monsters.

Say MM1 monsters had a 50% chance to hit you when MM was released.

Ok so new monster from MM3 on now have 70% chance. (Obviously I'm pulling these numbers out of my...)

Just because new monsters have a 70% chance now to hit you doesn't mean the 50% chance the old monsters had is reduced. It's still the same 50% it was when you first got that book...

See what I mean?

Nothing about the new monster design retroactively changes the effectiveness of the original monsters. They're still the same level (even if that level was crummy to begin with.)