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Monsters are more than their stats
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<blockquote data-quote="Zweischneid" data-source="post: 4175036" data-attributes="member: 11843"><p>Well, I too have been blessed to have players and DM around from time to time with similar descriptive skills and I, in all probablity, will play 4e in either case. But knowing these people, I also know that evocing engaging stories is a tough skill that doesn't come naturally to everyone. For a game explicitly strifing to lower entry barriers to good gameplay I see it as rather inexplicable lacuna that it doesn't provide for these people.</p><p></p><p>I've similarly played with people who most definitly do not need help on how to play a figher or wizard effectively. And I've played with DMs who most definitly do not need help on how to create a challenging encounter or deciding what magic items are appropriate. Still, 4e provides for these incase you do need some pointers. </p><p></p><p>However, as creating 'fluff' is, at minimum, a skill that needs to be learned, and (judging from my convention experience) not the easiest for people out there to get right, it should be addressed somewhere.</p><p></p><p>If you have players/DMs who have difficulties in thinking tactically, 4e will cover you with PC-roles and Monters tactics.</p><p></p><p>If you have players/DMs who have difficulties gauging challenges and appropriatness of magic items, 4e will cover you with a very throughout system of level-based comparisons, which has been extensively play-tested.</p><p></p><p>If you have players/DMs who have difficulties creating engaging and evocative fluff, 4e suddenly leaves you out in the cold. </p><p></p><p>Neither of these above is likely needed for the 'experienced' or 'gifted' out there. They should all be part of 4e's effort of actively trying to be easily playable.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That said, you're succubus example quoted above puzzles me abit. If players struggle with breaking a domination and than, all of a sudden it lapses because the rules (or DM fiat) stipulates it must, won't the players feel even more cheated of their supposed protagonistic role in the adventure - if it expires whether the players act or not, why would the "Heroes" be needed in the first place? </p><p></p><p>If innovative input comes from the players (or the DM him/herself has a creative moment) putting forward a possiblity that is not covered in the MM (i.e. find the Mirror of Pelor, etc.), than the game (DM) should most certainly play along and make this idea a possible solution to the encounter, even if this wasn't to original intend. </p><p></p><p>What I expect from an 'easy-to-learn-RPG' however are story-hooks and/or descriptive options to come with each monster (class ability, spell, etc..) as a gaming-help, that allow players/DMs to cover the times when that elusive creative spark just refuses to appear for one reason or another.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Zweischneid, post: 4175036, member: 11843"] Well, I too have been blessed to have players and DM around from time to time with similar descriptive skills and I, in all probablity, will play 4e in either case. But knowing these people, I also know that evocing engaging stories is a tough skill that doesn't come naturally to everyone. For a game explicitly strifing to lower entry barriers to good gameplay I see it as rather inexplicable lacuna that it doesn't provide for these people. I've similarly played with people who most definitly do not need help on how to play a figher or wizard effectively. And I've played with DMs who most definitly do not need help on how to create a challenging encounter or deciding what magic items are appropriate. Still, 4e provides for these incase you do need some pointers. However, as creating 'fluff' is, at minimum, a skill that needs to be learned, and (judging from my convention experience) not the easiest for people out there to get right, it should be addressed somewhere. If you have players/DMs who have difficulties in thinking tactically, 4e will cover you with PC-roles and Monters tactics. If you have players/DMs who have difficulties gauging challenges and appropriatness of magic items, 4e will cover you with a very throughout system of level-based comparisons, which has been extensively play-tested. If you have players/DMs who have difficulties creating engaging and evocative fluff, 4e suddenly leaves you out in the cold. Neither of these above is likely needed for the 'experienced' or 'gifted' out there. They should all be part of 4e's effort of actively trying to be easily playable. That said, you're succubus example quoted above puzzles me abit. If players struggle with breaking a domination and than, all of a sudden it lapses because the rules (or DM fiat) stipulates it must, won't the players feel even more cheated of their supposed protagonistic role in the adventure - if it expires whether the players act or not, why would the "Heroes" be needed in the first place? If innovative input comes from the players (or the DM him/herself has a creative moment) putting forward a possiblity that is not covered in the MM (i.e. find the Mirror of Pelor, etc.), than the game (DM) should most certainly play along and make this idea a possible solution to the encounter, even if this wasn't to original intend. What I expect from an 'easy-to-learn-RPG' however are story-hooks and/or descriptive options to come with each monster (class ability, spell, etc..) as a gaming-help, that allow players/DMs to cover the times when that elusive creative spark just refuses to appear for one reason or another. [/QUOTE]
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