NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MerricB" data-source="post: 4175296" data-attributes="member: 3586">Indeed... and the primary confrontation with a monster is in combat. Thus, the succubus (to use an example) has charm/dominate powers that manifest in combat. However, when the succubus seduces the king... no PCs in sight. You don't need rules for that; you need a concept. I hope 4e has such suggestions, but - let's face it - we also have a vast array of fantasy literature and mythology to also give us inspiration.The aspect which 4e really leaves out is how to unseduce the king. That's not the right verb, but you know what I mean. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> The trouble with giving rules for this is that we've actually moved into adventure territory. It's a once-off. Most people won't be playing adventures where the goal is "free the king from the succubus" more than once. (Conversely, fighting succubi may well happen more than once). Three possible resolutions:* Find the magical artefact to break the domination. (The Mirror of Pelor gambit).* Convince the king by words to break the domination. (The Gandalf/Theoden gambit).* Kill the succubus. (The Barbarian gambit)Now, all editions of D&D support the first and third options, although the levels of adventure building advice vary, but it has been implied very strongly that 4e is the first edition to really have superior interaction rules and ways of overcoming encounters apart from combat.I like having rules for things. I really do. However, there are times when providing strict rules for everything really gets in the way of creativity, storytelling and fun. Polymorph and Wish are two areas that really suffer in 3e as a result. Polymorph because unintended interactions break it, and Wish because legislating to make sure it isn't broken takes all the mythological resonance away from the spell. (I can use Wish to cast any 7th level spell I like? What a waste!)There are times when you have to say, "This is not something we can do properly. We must leave it in the hands of the DM and the players". That's the approach to 4e Wish. Let's make it a plot device, so that when it does turn up - and it's not as a learnable spell, AFAIK - it is significant. Alas, Polymorph doesn't admit to the same treatment, as it's something that is heavily used by players, so "nerfing" is necessary... although hopefully it'll still be cool when it appears.Cheers!</blockquote>

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