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Message: <blockquote data-quote="D'karr" data-source="post: 4175934" data-attributes="member: 336">Nothing prevented that in 3e IMO, but the discussion here seems to be that a succubus needs a bunch of rules to attempt to do so on an NPC, and that 4e does not support that.  This is where some are calling shenanigans.We have not seen the full rules so saying, as some have, that nothing but what we have seen exists is "bull."  As has been pointed out by some you don't need a bunch of rules for doing what has already been discussed, as the seduction, etc. has occurred off camera so to speak.We have not seen rituals or anything that describes long-term magical effects.  The designers and developers have told us they exist, but some choose to ignore that and continue to say that without these rules the game sucks.  Well d'oh.  We have not seen the full rules.  If after the rules are released we find that indeed the rules are lacking then we can complain.  Doing so before then is pretty silly.It would be like giving a movie a bad review when all you have seen is the preview.  The people that are defending 4e are not saying that 4e is the end-all, be-all in gaming.  What they are saying is that they are going to give the rules a chance before they make up their mind about them.  So they are going to go see the movie before giving it a review.  But what they have seen from the preview is good enough to go see the movie to begin with.</blockquote>