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<blockquote data-quote="gizmo33" data-source="post: 4181774" data-attributes="member: 30001">I don't think my issue has anything to do with that.&nbsp; As I understood the &quot;succubus seduction&quot; example, the rules were going to propose a complete lack of rule framework for that ability - anything beyond flavor text.&nbsp; It wasn't a matter of the rules saying &quot;you (the DM) decide on what the Will DC is to resist the seduction and what it's duration is&quot;.&nbsp; It's the matter of the rules not outlining *any* of the significant parameters of the ability.&nbsp; This, then, becomes analagous to the DM deciding whether the ranger succeeds or fails, rather that what the rangers chance should be.&nbsp; Because if the DM decides on every parameter of the ability, then it's pretty simple to encourage/nerf the ability.&nbsp; So fine then: take a +8 instead of a +5 climb - but then I as a DM decide that you have to make the check every foot that you climb, and that your climbing movement rate is 1/100 your base speed.&nbsp; So enjoy your +8 bonus.&nbsp; My point here is that completely open-ended determination of parameters is not a whole lot different from arbitrarily deciding on success/failure.&nbsp; Whether or not actual climbing rules exist is sort of beside the point, the fact that sections of the game will be governed with this sort of &quot;nebulous non-rule&quot; design philosophy means the problem will arise somewhere.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="gizmo33, post: 4181774, member: 30001"] I don't think my issue has anything to do with that. As I understood the "succubus seduction" example, the rules were going to propose a complete lack of rule framework for that ability - anything beyond flavor text. It wasn't a matter of the rules saying "you (the DM) decide on what the Will DC is to resist the seduction and what it's duration is". It's the matter of the rules not outlining *any* of the significant parameters of the ability. This, then, becomes analagous to the DM deciding whether the ranger succeeds or fails, rather that what the rangers chance should be. Because if the DM decides on every parameter of the ability, then it's pretty simple to encourage/nerf the ability. So fine then: take a +8 instead of a +5 climb - but then I as a DM decide that you have to make the check every foot that you climb, and that your climbing movement rate is 1/100 your base speed. So enjoy your +8 bonus. My point here is that completely open-ended determination of parameters is not a whole lot different from arbitrarily deciding on success/failure. Whether or not actual climbing rules exist is sort of beside the point, the fact that sections of the game will be governed with this sort of "nebulous non-rule" design philosophy means the problem will arise somewhere. [/QUOTE]

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