Monsters, Monsters, Monsters! Podcast

[Ashardalon]

On one hand, I doubt I'll need a 4E frost giant anytime soon, and if I do, I'm sure I could whip one up to get me by.

On the other... I am disturbed by the 'no frost giant in MM1' statement.
1) What other, possibly even more iconic, creatures will not be present?

Well, we could start by looking at what famous/iconic creatures were not present in the 3.X Monster Manual, which would include things like catoplebas, dao, flind, fomorian, marid, phoenix... it really isn't such a departure from 3.X, really.

 

[ShadowDenizen]

Well, we could start by looking at what famous/iconic creatures were not present in the 3.X Monster Manual, which would include things like catoplebas, dao, flind, fomorian, marid, phoenix... it really isn't such a departure from 3.X, really.

Granted, many cool monsters were left out of the 3.x MM; but none of the monsters on that list (barring perhaps the Phoenix) are on the "Iconic" scale of the Frost Giant. (IMHO, at least.)

There's a tremendous difference between saying "There's no Catoblepas in the MM", as opposed to "THere's no Frost Giant in the MM."

Especially when it seem that the former creatres were presumably left out for space and/or quality concerns, while the latter seems like it's being left out to inflate future sales of further MM's.

Not cool, WotC.

 

[Dacileva]

There's a tremendous difference between saying "There's no Catoblepas in the MM", as opposed to "THere's no Frost Giant in the MM."

Much less of one to say "There's no phoenix in the MM" to frost giant, though.

All that said, I can't be the only person who finds the absence of frost giants to be a good thing? They're boring. Most of the "iconic" giants are. A hill giant is just a beefed-up ogre with rocks to throw. A frost giant is just a beefed-up hill giant with cold resistance and fire vulnerability. Hell, giants aren't very interesting.

There are worse things than the absence of one of the most generic monsters in existence to get one's panties in a bunch over.

 

[Imaro]

There are worse things than the absence of one of the most generic monsters in existence to get one's panties in a bunch over.

I don't think the Frost Giant per say is what has people a little irritated. I think it's knowing now that certain "Iconics" won't be in the first MM and the reasoning really is to get you to spend more money on monster books.

As a side note if the MM I is full of things like Orc Warrior, Orc Scout, Orc shaman, etc. as seperate monsters I will be more than a little irritated.

 

[Rechan]

As a side note if the MM I is full of things like Orc Warrior, Orc Scout, Orc shaman, etc. as seperate monsters I will be more than a little irritated.

I agree with this. Looking at the MMV as an example, the 'Various array NPCs' style annoyed me.

However, they COULD handle this by just doing something like the Elemental statblocks in the MM. Just, stat blocks that vary in CR and various stats, build upwards, and just some notation at the bottom about what the elemental is and what its powers are. Bam,d one. Orc shouldn't get more than a page.

 

[A'koss]

As someone who runs a Norse-flavored campaign, I was not especially pleased to hear this either. Worse, it seems that they're including *some* of the core giants (fire giants are mentioned) in the first book. I'd rather see all the core giants in the 1st MM... or none. Scattering them across two or more references is just a bad idea IMO.

I hope they reconsider this and that goes for the beholder-kin, Yuan-ti variants and other "families" of monsters.

 

[Shroomy]

I hope they reconsider this and that goes for the beholder-kin, Yuan-ti variants and other "families" of monsters.

But these splits are already done in 3.x.

 

[el-remmen]

I have to say, the idea of rebuilding all the monsters based on their story elements rather than some duty to what they were like mechanically in past editions works for me. I have been doing that for years with monsters whose 3E versions left me flat (like the bullywug).

 

[Rechan]

WotC, Give Me the Monsters You Expect Me to Use. Not the rare creature that fills my Iconic need, but a monster that I will WANT to throw at my PCs because it's exciting. Not because it's just Odd (Digester, Delver), but because it's cool and unique.

I want my players awed and scared and scrambling to deal with their current threat.

What I want for the MM is basically for it to be Cram Packed with monsters. I want it so full of monsters they have to jump up and down on the cover just to make it shut. I don't want say, a hundred monsters, and that includes four examples of every humanoid or semi-humanoid race. And I want monsters that are good, not just a new ugly face with some HD and AC. I want story function and game function.

It won't anger me if the carrion crawler or the hydra isn't present, as long as there are three monsters in their place that I will look at them and say 'I must put this in my next adventure'. Monsters, with abilities that inspire, are better to me than monsters that 'well if I ever need a creature that fills this ecological niche in this environment at this level, I guess this will do'.

 

[frankthedm]

All that said, I can't be the only person who finds the absence of frost giants to be a good thing? They're boring. Most of the "iconic" giants are. A hill giant is just a beefed-up ogre with rocks to throw. A frost giant is just a beefed-up hill giant with cold resistance and fire vulnerability.

While i am slightly irked at no frost giatn in the MM1, I do agree a hill giant should be tough enough to survive out in a cold nordic enviroment.
[IMaGel]http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/8387/frostyfa8.jpg[/IMagel]
Hell, Do frost giants really need to be full-on immune to cold? Five to ten points of cold resistance is MORE than enough to handle almost any cold enviorment, even a glacial rift. Thus a frost giant is a bit hardier to cold atatcks, but no longer needs that achiles heal of fire attacks.

IMHO from the way D&D depicts them, 'frost' giant should still be flesh and blood, not ice and antifreeze. The thing on the left looks immune to ice, and one would expect it to take extra damage form fire. The giant on the right, not so much.