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Monsters that mark: A pain for DMs
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<blockquote data-quote="Xorn" data-source="post: 4137643" data-attributes="member: 61231"><p>I've run Raiders of Oakhurst six times, Return of the Burning Plague twice, and Second Son once. I'll be running Raiders of Oakhurst reloaded (starting it) this weekend, and I'll probably run Return of the Burning Plague again on Sunday. I have a standard play group of 5-6 people that play every Saturday, and I have a rotating group of people (from a pool of around 15 so far) that participate in the Sunday/Monday games.</p><p></p><p>I'm mentioning this to establish that I've been DMing 4E fan demos with the rules we know since the weekend following DDXP. I think this gives me a position to comment on the marking rules with a pretty thorough working knowledge of what I'm describing. So on to the topic, marks.</p><p></p><p>I'll just restate my previous post mentioning that while I did not find keeping track of marks to be difficult at all (as a DM, you have <em>some</em> way to track which HP total on your scratch paper matches which token on the playmat, so I just write <em>that</em> indicator next to the player affected), I do think it's the clunkiest mechanic I've had in 4E fan games. To be clear, I don't think it's a clunky mechanic--I just think the rest of the rules are even more elegant, so Marking becomes the "most difficult" by proxy.</p><p></p><p>By "most difficult" I mean "simple" as the rest of the mechanics are "really simple".</p><p></p><p>The biggest problem I saw with Marking was the potential for exploitation--and the 4E dev team have mentioned they've changed Marking repeatedly--and it's not in the current state that it was at DDXP. As the ultimate changes to Marking are not clear to us, I've started using the following with my last game, and enjoyed the mechanic.</p><p></p><p>If you do not make a melee attack on the marked target by the end of your next turn, the mark fades.</p><p></p><p>There. Paladin can mark from range, but not exploit by "kiting". The warrior can't keep something marked from 10 squares away with throwing axes.</p><p></p><p>In the first game I used it, the young black dragon was marked by the paladin, while the ranger was DRILLING her, unanswered. With a tail slap pushing the paladin back, The dragon jumped into the air and glided over her lake to the ranger (charging), attacking (taking 8 damage) with a -2 penalty--and actually missed. The next turn the paladin couldn't reach her for a melee attack, and was too far away to re-mark her (she moved moved 14 squares over deep water!), so for the next round she could would have been able to attack penalty free--with great effort she got away from the paladin's mark. Of course the fighter dove off a ledge and attacked her (charging), and marked her, and that -2 penalty was a meaningful difference in her attacks.</p><p></p><p>Point is here--this mechanic may be what WotC is going to settle on, but until then, this is all speculation.</p><p></p><p>And if you have 4 marking NPCs in a battle, then just tell your player, "THAT one marked you." and point to the mini. Even if you <em>don't</em> make a note on your combat tracker sheet, I'll bet the player remembers. If you don't use a steno pad, scrap of notebook paper, or Big Chief™ tablet (with and oversized pencil) to jot down initiative, HP, conditions, AND marks--I think you've discovered the problem!</p><p></p><p>And a bloodied creature has half HP. If a player says, "Is that one bloodied?" you look at their health, and if it's at half or below--say, "Yes." Again, if this mechanic is too complex, DMing just might not be for you! (That's meant to be tongue-in-cheek.) This reminds me of a funny occurence a couple games ago: I have a player that is a pretty good artist, and is always sketching the party when it's not his turn, and the other day I said, "Erais," as I use character names, "your turn!" He replied, "I'll Lance of Faith the Bloodied one!" Which met some weird glances as there weren't any bloodied creatures on the board (the last was killed). "Oh sorry," he admitted, "I kinda wasn't paying attention, so I just say, 'Attack the bloodied one!' when I'm not sure what I missed..."</p><p></p><p>We noticed that he said, "Attack the bloodied one!" like 8 times total that game. I'm going to have to ban him from drawing at the table or something. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>My topic statement? This should have been at the top of the post, but oh well--The most complex parts of 4E mechanics feel way ahead of the typical mechanics in a 3.5 fight.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Xorn, post: 4137643, member: 61231"] I've run Raiders of Oakhurst six times, Return of the Burning Plague twice, and Second Son once. I'll be running Raiders of Oakhurst reloaded (starting it) this weekend, and I'll probably run Return of the Burning Plague again on Sunday. I have a standard play group of 5-6 people that play every Saturday, and I have a rotating group of people (from a pool of around 15 so far) that participate in the Sunday/Monday games. I'm mentioning this to establish that I've been DMing 4E fan demos with the rules we know since the weekend following DDXP. I think this gives me a position to comment on the marking rules with a pretty thorough working knowledge of what I'm describing. So on to the topic, marks. I'll just restate my previous post mentioning that while I did not find keeping track of marks to be difficult at all (as a DM, you have [i]some[/i] way to track which HP total on your scratch paper matches which token on the playmat, so I just write [i]that[/i] indicator next to the player affected), I do think it's the clunkiest mechanic I've had in 4E fan games. To be clear, I don't think it's a clunky mechanic--I just think the rest of the rules are even more elegant, so Marking becomes the "most difficult" by proxy. By "most difficult" I mean "simple" as the rest of the mechanics are "really simple". The biggest problem I saw with Marking was the potential for exploitation--and the 4E dev team have mentioned they've changed Marking repeatedly--and it's not in the current state that it was at DDXP. As the ultimate changes to Marking are not clear to us, I've started using the following with my last game, and enjoyed the mechanic. If you do not make a melee attack on the marked target by the end of your next turn, the mark fades. There. Paladin can mark from range, but not exploit by "kiting". The warrior can't keep something marked from 10 squares away with throwing axes. In the first game I used it, the young black dragon was marked by the paladin, while the ranger was DRILLING her, unanswered. With a tail slap pushing the paladin back, The dragon jumped into the air and glided over her lake to the ranger (charging), attacking (taking 8 damage) with a -2 penalty--and actually missed. The next turn the paladin couldn't reach her for a melee attack, and was too far away to re-mark her (she moved moved 14 squares over deep water!), so for the next round she could would have been able to attack penalty free--with great effort she got away from the paladin's mark. Of course the fighter dove off a ledge and attacked her (charging), and marked her, and that -2 penalty was a meaningful difference in her attacks. Point is here--this mechanic may be what WotC is going to settle on, but until then, this is all speculation. And if you have 4 marking NPCs in a battle, then just tell your player, "THAT one marked you." and point to the mini. Even if you [i]don't[/i] make a note on your combat tracker sheet, I'll bet the player remembers. If you don't use a steno pad, scrap of notebook paper, or Big Chief™ tablet (with and oversized pencil) to jot down initiative, HP, conditions, AND marks--I think you've discovered the problem! And a bloodied creature has half HP. If a player says, "Is that one bloodied?" you look at their health, and if it's at half or below--say, "Yes." Again, if this mechanic is too complex, DMing just might not be for you! (That's meant to be tongue-in-cheek.) This reminds me of a funny occurence a couple games ago: I have a player that is a pretty good artist, and is always sketching the party when it's not his turn, and the other day I said, "Erais," as I use character names, "your turn!" He replied, "I'll Lance of Faith the Bloodied one!" Which met some weird glances as there weren't any bloodied creatures on the board (the last was killed). "Oh sorry," he admitted, "I kinda wasn't paying attention, so I just say, 'Attack the bloodied one!' when I'm not sure what I missed..." We noticed that he said, "Attack the bloodied one!" like 8 times total that game. I'm going to have to ban him from drawing at the table or something. :) My topic statement? This should have been at the top of the post, but oh well--The most complex parts of 4E mechanics feel way ahead of the typical mechanics in a 3.5 fight. [/QUOTE]
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