Monsters that mark: A pain for DMs

[Kunimatyu]

I've now run two 4e demos, and both had creatures capable of marking (skeletons and kobold dragonshields), and I gotta say I'm not too fond of it.

It's fine on the player's side -- a Defender's player can just remind me which enemy they've marked so it's not additional stuff for me to remember, and one "mark" token per Defender player is minor at best.

However, when I'M the one marking, everything goes to hell in a handbasket, especially if groups of monsters have the ability. There are tokens everywhere and it's a pain to remember which skeleton put a mark on the fighter and which skeletons got their marks superseded, etc. On top of that, I have yet to see a marking monster that seriously benefits from the mechanic -- there's nothing particularly thematic about a kobold fighter or skeleton "marking" you.

Marking seems like a decent mechanic for Elite monsters, and nothing else. Minions should never mark -- there's too many of them for it to be meaningful -- and normal monsters are numerous enough that it's a pain. Solo monsters, of course, get no benefit at all from a marking ability most of the time.

Thoughts?

 

[HeinorNY]

What's the ultimate purpose of marks?

 

[Zamkaizer]

What's the ultimate purpose of marks?

Getting philosophical, are we?

 

[Evenglare]

the ultimate purpose of marks is to have the casters stay alive lol.

 

[Scrollreader]

Kunimatyu

Did you have a problem keeping track of status conditions in 3.X? Or did you just not use monsters and opponents that applied them to PCs?

 

[Wolfspider]

Kunimatyu

Did you have a problem keeping track of status conditions in 3.X? Or did you just not use monsters and opponents that applied them to PCs?

What's third edition got to do with it?

 

[iskurthi]

Are we there yet, Papa Mark?

Did you have a problem keeping track of status conditions in 3.X? Or did you just not use monsters and opponents that applied them to PCs?

Status effects in 3.X generally weren't tied to the monster that created them though. With marks it's not just the effect that matters, but who applied it.

 

[AllisterH]

Marking seems like a decent mechanic for Elite monsters, and nothing else. Minions should never mark -- there's too many of them for it to be meaningful -- and normal monsters are numerous enough that it's a pain. Solo monsters, of course, get no benefit at all from a marking ability most of the time.

Thoughts?

I think Marking still works for normal monsters but said normal monster shouldn't be in groups larger than 2 for ease of use on the DM part. Given the role breakdown of monsters, I'm positive that DMs shouldnt be using more than 2 "marking" monsters.

Take for example the kobold dragonshield. I don't think you're supposed to run 5 of them at once (since really, the marking ability becomes wasted) but run 2 of them protecting a kobold wyrmpriest/skirmisher/slinger

Same thing with the skeleton that is supposed to protect the Blazing Skeleton at range monster.

 

[Crothian]

What's third edition got to do with it?

In 3e like many other games there are things the DM has to keep track of. But just because it is in other games doesn't make it a good or a bad thing. I imagine that for people that have trouble with it practice will make it easier. Or they will stop DMing or move to simpler games.

 

[Zamkaizer]

I think Marking still works for normal monsters but said normal monster shouldn't be in groups larger than 2 for ease of use on the DM part. Given the role breakdown of monsters, I'm positive that DMs shouldnt be using more than 2 "marking" monsters.

Take for example the kobold dragonshield. I don't think you're supposed to run 5 of them at once (since really, the marking ability becomes wasted) but run 2 of them protecting a kobold wyrmpriest/skirmisher/slinger

Same thing with the skeleton that is supposed to protect the Blazing Skeleton at range monster.

For the sake of their sanity, a dungeon master might wish to avoid doing so, but nothing about marking suggests that they're 'doin' it wrong' by running several creatures possessing the ability. Would it not strain credibility that, in every encounter, the timid casters outnumber--often significantly--their guardians?