Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Monsters using stealth
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Ulorian - Agent of Chaos" data-source="post: 4459225" data-attributes="member: 16668"><p>You could say that, but it would be a house rule, and one that turns the Stealth ruleset on its ear as it deviates very widely from RAW. Again, the Take 20 option, as you're calling it, is not available to PCs; it's a tool the DM can use to speed up play for repeating the same skill check when there is no time constraint (DMG p.41). The shortcut is there to avoid wasting the group's time by repeating the same skill check when there would eventually be a success anyway. The example given is searching an empty room after the encounter has been dealt with and there is no chance that more monsters will show up while the party is searching. The DM handwaves the series of rolls and assumes that a 20 will eventually be rolled and is told to </p><p></p><p><strong>Take 20 as it existed in 3.x does not exist in 4E.</strong> The way Perception checks are made in your ambush scenario are described under the Perception skill in the PHB: you either make a passive check for the players (Take 10) or the players make an active check (they roll d20).</p><p></p><p>When on the alert for danger, as your party is, they make an active check: no Take 20 allowed. There was a thread here on ENWorld (a few months old now I would say) that discussed the odd situation of an active Perception check yielding a lower result than a passive check. The consensus was that a Stealth check had to beat both a passive and active Perception roll, if an active check was made, but I don't know if the basis for that was somewhere in the DMG/PHB, a Wizards employee clarification, or was just a common sense thing. I don't see it in the updates...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ulorian - Agent of Chaos, post: 4459225, member: 16668"] You could say that, but it would be a house rule, and one that turns the Stealth ruleset on its ear as it deviates very widely from RAW. Again, the Take 20 option, as you're calling it, is not available to PCs; it's a tool the DM can use to speed up play for repeating the same skill check when there is no time constraint (DMG p.41). The shortcut is there to avoid wasting the group's time by repeating the same skill check when there would eventually be a success anyway. The example given is searching an empty room after the encounter has been dealt with and there is no chance that more monsters will show up while the party is searching. The DM handwaves the series of rolls and assumes that a 20 will eventually be rolled and is told to [B]Take 20 as it existed in 3.x does not exist in 4E.[/B] The way Perception checks are made in your ambush scenario are described under the Perception skill in the PHB: you either make a passive check for the players (Take 10) or the players make an active check (they roll d20). When on the alert for danger, as your party is, they make an active check: no Take 20 allowed. There was a thread here on ENWorld (a few months old now I would say) that discussed the odd situation of an active Perception check yielding a lower result than a passive check. The consensus was that a Stealth check had to beat both a passive and active Perception roll, if an active check was made, but I don't know if the basis for that was somewhere in the DMG/PHB, a Wizards employee clarification, or was just a common sense thing. I don't see it in the updates... [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Monsters using stealth
Top