Monstrous Healers

Kamikaze Midget said:
Achilles was a big one, though a lot of the heroic Achaeans had a near-supernatural level of perserverence, strength, or endurance. It's a standard pretty standard storytelling device to say "the great blow was turned aside," or "the blow would have felled a lesser man" or something similar. Action heroes in cinema get bones crushed and hit walls at 120 mph and roll away with scratches and bruises. I'm drawing a blank on some specific examples now, but it's still before lunch. ;)


Those just seem like high hp to me in D&D, or DR, or Con :) . Healing is tough to find examples, Lancelot in Camelot saves the knight he almost killed in a joust, but that would be covered by a paladin laying on hands or healing skill.
 

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Kamikaze Midget said:
But real life human soldiers aren't D&D characters any more than you or I am, any more than real-life scholars can cast magic. D&D has never accurately modeled real anythings.

Players have to be able to identify with their characters. At their core, their usually human or close to human.

So they'd be magic items, then? Or 24-hour duration cleric spells? Either way, so that it's reliable than a party has them and doesn't have to worry about ending and re-starting durations? There are ways to ensure parties have access to this in the system, it just isn't integrated quite that way -- regeneration, fast healing, and DR are very valuable by the RAW, and amusingly common on monsters. If you can be sure the barbarian is going to have a +1 weapon, why shouldn't you be sure the fighter can regenerate (even if it's from an item or a spell)?

That would be good, but...

Ok, I don't think a magic item that gave DR would be broken or even hard to use. But I would draw the line at FH or regeneration. (I would argue regeneration should be kept as far from the PCs as possible.)

You only apply fast healing once and you don't remove it. You just apply it every round.

That's not "once". That's "once per six seconds".

The heroes fought in room C. They're under time pressure, so they wait in room C for a minute for people to heal (so now that's 10 * fast healing, ridiculously easy math). Now they move hurriedly to room D, which is up a twisted corridor and has various features players might want to stop and check out. ("I spend three rounds looking at the painting with detect magic", etc.) Now the GM has to figure out how long it will take them to get there, taking into account steps, the twists and turns, the darkness, etc. If they're ambushed on the way via secret doors, there's even more math to deal with. "Okay, I calculate it would take 4 minutes and another 12 seconds to get to the ambush spot..." uh oh, here comes the whining and accusations of cheating (this is a big deal when someone gets dropped to -11 during the last round of combat, when an extra two hit points would have saved them), or the critical math assessments, etc. I think a lot of DMs aren't so sharp on the timing. It's rarely necessary to count out rounds out of combat. I certainly don't think it adds to the game to measure distances so precisely out of combat.

So they just regenerate or gain fast healing instead. Why would it be simpler for the monsters to have it, but at the same time, more complicated for the PC's to have it? That dog won't hunt, monsignior.

Because the DM does not have to take great care of the monsters out of combat, and whatever he does with the monsters is invisible to the players. If he makes a mistake and gives them too much or too little fast healing, none of the players are going to notice. It's not going to look like cheating or cause arguments.

A PC fast healing rate of something like one hit point per minute would, IMO, be a lot more reasonable. (Counting by minutes is a lot easier than counting by rounds out of combat.) Even so, you could get PCs just sitting around for half and hour and waiting to heal up - while time pressure is common, it's not always there.
 

Kamikaze Midget said:
Why should healing be any more good than a magic missile is evil? Healing has all sorts of wicked uses, prolonging or reviving evil beings, nurturing suffering during torment....I've always thought of the spell as a tool, rather than as a good or evil act by itself (with the obvious exceptions of [good] and [evil] spells).
Healing can be used for evil ends but in the majority of cases, the easing of pain and suffering, and the restoration to full health are good acts. Easing someone else's distress is generally morally good.
 

An evil cleric might be thinking "this minion will fight better - and he can still stand between mean and my enemies." An evil cleric might actually cause mental anguish through the use of healing spells (flavor only).
 

(Psi)SeveredHead said:
An evil cleric might be thinking "this minion will fight better - and he can still stand between mean and my enemies." An evil cleric might actually cause mental anguish through the use of healing spells (flavor only).
While the ultimate end may indeed be evil, healing doesn't match the ethos of most evil deities. In a culture that embraces evil, a cleric who heals (and by extension his deity) is going to lose credibility. This is particularly true among monsters with low average intelligence and therefore limited appreciation of forward thinking and ultimate goals.
 

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