Mordenkainen's Disjunction revision

[nameless]

If you can destroy a magic item with a big giant nonmagical hammer, or a shatter spell, or some other means of physically blasting it to bits, I don't see what's so bad about a 9th level spell doing it.

The real problem in my eyes is that it triggers so many saves that it becomes unwieldy, it is too generally too automatic, and there is nothing that restores disjoined items. A dead character can be restored to life with magic, level drains and ability drains, etc. can all be fixed with the right magic. There's no magic that makes a bunch of new magic items....

 

[CalrinAlshaw]

How about Tack on a rediculous XP cost to it. Like....5,000 xp same as a wish. The only problem with this, is NPC's, Monsters, etc, need an XP line, that shows generally how much "spare" XP a monster or NPC carries around. This would make it's use extremely rare, and it would end up being a cornered sorceror or wizards kinda last-ditch spell.

Calrin Alshaw

 

[Felikeries]

the intention of magic item suppresion and use for a spell such as this
easily falls into a category in which this may be applied

~each item will make a will save,if therefore the first failed
~moving beyond the range which is lvl knwoing the spell applied undoes,as to
# of items effected related to int or wiz adj of caster
~an adj for the effects of in effect items effect may be,their original dmg
on 1d4 of party that casts spell divyed
~caster is forced to make this only when has = or higher AC than foe or foes
~will saves only mean that 1/2 the effect takes place on the DM configured next NPC or enemy item to be used,and each spell or item that has been effected adds +1 to attack roll with this item use

 

[Plane Sailing]

Incidentally I raised a not unconnected in the rules forum a few days ago (and didn't get any convincing answers) about essentially a potential defence against MD.

"Contingency Anti-Magic Field to go off when targetted by MD".

It revolves around the precise instant that Contingency activates, and if the DM considers that it is an interrupting thing (a bit like readied actions) then MD gets launched at a wizard, AMF springs into being with an 83% or less chance of protecting him an immediate buddies from the fallout.

Of course, a lot depends upon the precise instance when Contingency kicks in... hence the need for discussion and clarification between player and DM at the least.

Cheers

 

[LightPhoenix]

How about Tack on a rediculous XP cost to it. Like....5,000 xp same as a wish. The only problem with this, is NPC's, Monsters, etc, need an XP line, that shows generally how much "spare" XP a monster or NPC carries around. This would make it's use extremely rare, and it would end up being a cornered sorceror or wizards kinda last-ditch spell.

I think it's a terrible idea.

It serves no purpose but to make it more rare for PCs. NPCs and monsters have no use for XP in the vast majority of cases. If a DM wants someone casting it, they'll cast it, if not they won't. It's predetermined most of the time. From a logic standpoint, if it's on their prepared spell list, they probably have the XP to cast it anyway

Personally, should there ever be an occasion for me to DM, I intend on just removing the spell from the game. Lazy? Possibly. But also very simple, elegant, and quick.

 

[Stalker0]

While making it an Area... targetted greater dispelling sounds great from a balance point, its terrible from a gameplay standpoint.

Its bad enough having to make a dispel check on every item a guy has from a targetted dispel, now I have to do it for EVERY creature in the radius!! You could spend half an hour on dispel checks alone.

I think the xp cost, perhaps coupled with a high material cost, is a more elegant solution. For those worried that xp cost won't deter npcs, are you also having npcs throwing around wishes like candy?

 

[pyk]

Also simpler: When MDJ goes off, roll d100, and an average will save. If will save fails, that's the percentage of all items/spells in area get nerfed. Go by the chart that specifies the order of item damage on failed saves, I forget what page.

I.E. Average party will save roll fails (one roll) and d100 rolls 53%. Go through and trash 53% of the party's items, starting from the top of the chart.

 

[jodyjohnson]

Our house rule is:

"All non-permanent spells in the area are dispelled without a check. Each creature or unattended item in the area makes a single Will save to avoid suppression of all their items and permanent effects for 1d4 rounds."

Less rolls, short-term but noticeable effect on permanent items, doesn't change wealth levels. Characters could have their "no magic" stats calculated ahead of time (same as operating in anti-magic field or dead magic zone).

As far as the ability to dispell duration spells automatically goes, I figure you could have spell that automatically advanced spells in the area 24 hours of their duration that would do the same thing.

Leave the qualifiers for Anti-magic field and artifacts in (artifacts only suppressed but have a chance for backlash or intervention).

At the levels where characters can start throwing this around it's possible that occasionally a Deck of Many Things, Staff of the Magi, Hammer of Thunderbolts or other minor artifact might be in the area to make it risky.

 

[Stalker0]

One other way... a targetted mordy's just dispels everything. The area one acts like an AREA greater dispel (with a bigger area). Neither can knock out items permanently.

Its still badass for dispelling things, there's actually less rolling than greater dispel (and with all the rolling at high levels, its nice to get a little less), and you don't lose all your stuff.

 

[maggot]

As someone else pointed out, removing the "destroy item" property of Mords makes Mords way too good. Everyone will use it all that time. The main thing holding you back from using Mords all the time is destroying stuff.

Mages I know aren't overly concerned about loosing their spellcasting to Mords. Because in order for that to happen, four things have to align: (1) there has to be an artifact in the area of effect, (2) the artifact has to fail its save, (3) the wizard makes the d% roll, and (4) the wizard fails the rather-low-for-the-level will save. Compare this to the chances of nuking good loot with this bad boy.

How about this for a solution:

Mord's Disjunction is always centered on the caster and affects the caster as well. All effects are automatically dispelled as by dispel magic, and all items are automatically suppressed for 1d4 rounds (as if hit by dispel magic). Additionally, there is a 1% chance per level of dispelling an antimagic field. (Optionally, you could move permanent spells in with items: suppressed instead of dispelled.)

This makes it very powerful and very dangerous as before, but without the artifact and item destroying properties.