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Mordenkainens Magnificent Emporium saved by last minute adventurers?

Aegeri

First Post
I can't help but notice that Mordenkainens Magnificent Emporium has apparently been dug up from the dead and is back on the release schedule. From my point of view, this is one of the most important books released post essentials, particularly with how absolutely broken the magic item system currently is. For one thing, there is a depth of stupidity in iron armbands being uncommon (so cannot be obtained easily) while any essentials MBA spamming class can get common bracers of archery/bracers of mighty striking (which do the same thing, only on basic attacks). In addition to this, there aren't a lot of common items in the first place anyway and many old items haven't (yet) been errata'ed properly to be common/uncommon/rare (some things are so poor, they should be common but are uncommon).

Then there are rare items. Rare items were supposed to be powerful and character defining: In practice they are frequently worse than common items. The best (worst?) example is the Gauntlets of Ogre Power. A +1 bonus to some skills and then a daily power to add +2 damage for an encounter. Whoo! That's so amazing! This is totally worth a level 5 rare that doesn't even compete with the Bracers of Mighty Striking (Common) or the Iron Armbands of Power (Uncommon). Other rares are so situational, they are practically campaign dependent or they are frequently worse than common/uncommon equivalents. For something that should be special and character defining, they are a massive failure of the new system.

But don't take my word for it, let's take the designers word for it:
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I want to give the magic item rarity system a fair try, but there are very few common and rare items. Will it be supported in the future or should I use the treasure parcel system?

Until we have enough rare and common items in the system, it’s best to continue to use the treasure parcel system as written. When it comes to buying items, use your judgment as a DM to determine which uncommon items you would like to make available to the players. As a rule of thumb, treat items that lack powers and have either minor properties, such as a bonus to a skill, as common items.

If it’s still not clear if an item should be common, ask yourself two questions about it. If either answer is yes, then the item should not be common. First, would the item be overly useful if a player had easy access to multiples of it? Second, does the item provide a benefit that would be overpowering if everyone in the party had access to it?
This would be a good answer if the default essentials magic item system was the parcel system: But it instead a randomly generated system. I expect that most essentials players should buy the original DMG instead of the DMs kit, because it's flat out better (and has the base monster creation guidelines), but those who didn't are hosed.

In any event, seeing Mordenkainens Magical Emporium back is very pleasing. For one thing, it seems Wizards have bought it back to address the complaints above about the magic item system. Secondly, I was originally really looking forward to this book and I'm finding it tough going to make all my own new rares. I love the inherent concept within the item rarity system (which makes me an exception, most people seem to hate it), especially with rare items and what their potential should be. I do wonder why the decision to publish the book again instead of releasing the content over DDI, but not that I mind! More rare items is good by me!

But I hope, I so so so hope they have learned from disasters with initial rares. Rares can be awesome, flavorful and powerful due to the fact they aren't inherently easy to acquire. I want them to be character defining and exciting for my players. I don't want more shoddy items like the Gauntlets of Ogre Power, which deserve only thorough derision and mocking. I actually would love this system to work well, without me needing to make my own rares on a frequent basis and for there to be a decent spread of common/uncommon/rare items.

I am still quietly excited about this book, assuming that lessons that rares shouldn't suck more than more easily acquired commons/uncommons have been learned that is. I just hope its reanimation from the grave isn't a huge mistake on the Wizards website and it is actually coming.
 

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RLBURNSIDE

First Post
...

"For one thing, there is a depth of stupidity in iron armbands being uncommon (so cannot be obtained easily) while any essentials MBA spamming class can get common bracers of archery/bracers of mighty striking (which do the same thing, only on basic attacks)."

The cynic in me thinks that decision was not stupid so much as under-handed, in that it was calculated to "encourage" crap-tasticly boring Essentials builds on people, because they can no longer buy Iron Armbands / Archery Bracers. This, of course, to sell people the new books.

That said, I can't even play non-essentials classes at all at my local gaming place, and they call pre-Essentials stuff FourthCore, as IF PHB-1 is too hard-core for non-ultra-extreme gamers to understand that we cannot possibly cope with the sheer complexity of it all. It's all a cash grab and in the end, makes me play Pathfinder there instead. Don't rename 4th edition to 4th-Core and tell me my PHB-1 is now the "Advanced" version....ugh.

This is business 101 : Planned Obsolescence. They managed to do it in reverse : Everyone buys into it!! Why are we even worrying about what Wotc thinks items should be classified as ?? They are clearly incompetent at their own game. Or they're pulling a fast one on us.

If anything, the static properties should be the rare ones, if we are going by always-on Utility == Value metric. Most of the 4e items are garbage. I guess the hobo in me does like to sift through it, to find some rare junk that fits well with niche builds, but that's about it.
 
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MatthewJHanson

Registered Ninja
Publisher
I am excited to see this back on the schedule, though I will probably still ignore the rarity guidelines in my own game.

My only fear is that it's just a bunch of Adventure's Vault 1&2 items with some added flavor text.
 

Aegeri

First Post
I think one of the previews indicated they were new items, like a suit of armor that was haunted by the original warrior killed within it (and such). I would be very disappointed if it's just a book of errata on older items, but I honestly don't think that will be the case.

I agree though the common/uncommon/rare system has more flaws than just being incomplete. Always on items actually should be considered better than those that just have a power or so (as something always on will give you a greater overall benefit). I think what can be done is to boost some of the powers of uncommon/rare items, make them really worth it. Most of the problem with power item properties was just stacking them, like having multiple suits of veterans armor. That item wouldn't be anywhere near the issue it was without the ability to stack multiple copies of it.
 

Colmarr

First Post
I would be very disappointed if it's just a book of errata on older items

I actually wouldn't be disappointed by that, so long as it's a redesign/rebalance rather than just the sort of errata we saw with the Templar.

There was a book at the end of 3.5 (Magic Item Cyclopedia?) that significantly altered the pricing of some items. A 4e book that had the same purpose and realigned magic items so that they're appropriately levelled and costed would be great. If it went further and adjusted the underpowered items so that they were actually useful, that would be even better.

But yes, I expect this will contain new items. Given what happened to Class Compendium, I strongly doubt WotC would charge for a book of errata.
 

Dannager

First Post
The ideal would be to see them do a huge DDI update to the magic item database to coincide with the release of Mordenkainen's. They could correct any existing rarity issues that extant items have, and add enough new items that the rarity system would suddenly be great for handling a campaign's treasure.
 


Aegeri

First Post
Yeah I'm really looking forward to the product, not just because it will hopefully fix the current item system but because rares have so much design potential. I'd love to have some good interesting rares to hand to players.
 


Nullzone

Explorer
That said, I can't even play non-essentials classes at all at my local gaming place, and they call pre-Essentials stuff FourthCore, as IF PHB-1 is too hard-core for non-ultra-extreme gamers to understand that we cannot possibly cope with the sheer complexity of it all. It's all a cash grab and in the end, makes me play Pathfinder there instead. Don't rename 4th edition to 4th-Core and tell me my PHB-1 is now the "Advanced" version....ugh.

As a point of order because I take pride in it, it's worth noting that "Fourthcore" as a term in the 4e community typically means something other than "pre-essentials", and it refers to the initiative to create scenarios that are challenging to the player, and not just the PC.

I don't have the context for your FLGS' term so they very well may be referring to "pre-essentials" content when they say that, but I just wanted to bring that up so your ears don't burn every time you hear that word. :)


And for topical contribution: I sincerely hope that MME does include a large contingent of previously released items. I would love to have a catalog of magic items to throw around the table and say "You find x" and let them pick one out.
 

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