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More DMing analysis from Lewis Pulsipher
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<blockquote data-quote="Emerikol" data-source="post: 6340686" data-attributes="member: 6698278"><p>I would call this the "rules are the physics of the world" and "NPCs live by the same rules as PCs". Still we agree.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Good points on the description. I believe people should play this way though if that is what they find fun. I find the approach fun. The world I present to my players feels real to them so we are enough on the same page for it to work. Perhaps that is a form of genre preference. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I would substitute realism with cinematic realism. Things we'd spew our Mt. Dew when we see in a movie are the kinds of things we'd reject in a game. I realize that is entirely subjective but we have a small group of players in any D&D campaign so it's quit possible to please such a subset when it comes to believability and immersion. If you can achieve this with a small group of other players you've got something entertainment wise more valuable than most other things at least for me. Without immersion though, the high cost time wise and commitment wise of D&D is not worth it. Other games are so much easier to get into and out of.</p><p></p><p></p><p>You only need a group that agrees. I believe unlike you perhaps that we all share a lot in common when it comes to basic sense of reality. We might disagree. More often some don't care.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is why I allow player/DM communication to represent the thoughts of the character. I state the DC to represent knowledge the character with such skills would already have. I make passive checks against knowledge skills and I tell the players when I think it makes sense. So my players don't have to even ask in some cases because I just tell them. Based upon your knowledge of heraldry you'd say this shield was made during the fourth dynasty and so forth.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This viewpoint is a classic error. Abstraction is not unrealistic. When I play an operational wargame where I move DIVISIONS or even ARMIES across Russia in world war 2, the combat is very abstract. I do not need to know where every rifleman is taking cover or whether my tank hits his tank. D&D combat is very much the same. The d20 roll is based upon probabilities. The footwork, dodging, maneuvering etc.. is assumed.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I appreciate your perspective and I don't mean to be harsh at all in my responses so do not take me that way. For me D&D just isn't worth it without it being really immersive. As a board game, it just doesn't bring enough to the table to overcome all the costs involved in playing it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think one key issue people miss is that most everyone wants all the priorities. They just rank them in importance differently. I believe I could make any 4e player happy without using a single dissociative mechanic. If I worked hard enough at that goal. The devs seem to consider that effort not worth it but I'd think it really is worth it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Emerikol, post: 6340686, member: 6698278"] I would call this the "rules are the physics of the world" and "NPCs live by the same rules as PCs". Still we agree. Good points on the description. I believe people should play this way though if that is what they find fun. I find the approach fun. The world I present to my players feels real to them so we are enough on the same page for it to work. Perhaps that is a form of genre preference. I would substitute realism with cinematic realism. Things we'd spew our Mt. Dew when we see in a movie are the kinds of things we'd reject in a game. I realize that is entirely subjective but we have a small group of players in any D&D campaign so it's quit possible to please such a subset when it comes to believability and immersion. If you can achieve this with a small group of other players you've got something entertainment wise more valuable than most other things at least for me. Without immersion though, the high cost time wise and commitment wise of D&D is not worth it. Other games are so much easier to get into and out of. You only need a group that agrees. I believe unlike you perhaps that we all share a lot in common when it comes to basic sense of reality. We might disagree. More often some don't care. This is why I allow player/DM communication to represent the thoughts of the character. I state the DC to represent knowledge the character with such skills would already have. I make passive checks against knowledge skills and I tell the players when I think it makes sense. So my players don't have to even ask in some cases because I just tell them. Based upon your knowledge of heraldry you'd say this shield was made during the fourth dynasty and so forth. This viewpoint is a classic error. Abstraction is not unrealistic. When I play an operational wargame where I move DIVISIONS or even ARMIES across Russia in world war 2, the combat is very abstract. I do not need to know where every rifleman is taking cover or whether my tank hits his tank. D&D combat is very much the same. The d20 roll is based upon probabilities. The footwork, dodging, maneuvering etc.. is assumed. I appreciate your perspective and I don't mean to be harsh at all in my responses so do not take me that way. For me D&D just isn't worth it without it being really immersive. As a board game, it just doesn't bring enough to the table to overcome all the costs involved in playing it. I think one key issue people miss is that most everyone wants all the priorities. They just rank them in importance differently. I believe I could make any 4e player happy without using a single dissociative mechanic. If I worked hard enough at that goal. The devs seem to consider that effort not worth it but I'd think it really is worth it. [/QUOTE]
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