More house rules for heal checks

[Nareau]

My campaign world has very, very few divine casters. I'm trying to work out a way to deal with healing, and this is what I've come up with: three feats that let you use the Heal skill in new ways. I'd love to hear your feedback!

Medic [General]
Prerequisites: Heal 1 rank
Benefit
You are able to cure some wounds using non-magical medical procedures. The target cannot be healed this way for more HP than the medic has ranks in the Heal skill during a 24-hour period. Each use of this ability requires 5GP worth of herbs, bandages, and the like to perform. A standard Healer's Kit provides 10 such uses, and provides a +2 bonus on all heal checks.

DC 10: Heals 1 hp
DC 15: Heals 1d4+1 hp
DC 20: Heals 2d4+2 hp
For every additional 5 points of the heal check, the medic can restore 1d4+1 additional hp.

Curing HP in this way requires a standard action.


Greater Medic [General]
Prerequisites: Heal 8 ranks, Medic
Benefit
You are able to cure twice as many wounds as before. When making a Heal check to cure HP damage, you cure twice the amount listed. The target cannot be healed this way for more HP than twice your ranks in Heal during a 24-hour period. The cost, time, and other effects remain the same.


Surgeon [General]
Prerequisites: Heal 8 Ranks, Medic
Benefit
You can cure ability damage, ability drain, and certain conditions.

Curing ability damage requires 1 hour per check. It requires 10GP worth of medical supplies to
accomplish.

DC 20: Heals 1 ability 1 point
DC 25: Heals 1 ability 1d4+1 points
DC 30: Heals 1 ability 2d4+2 points
For every 5 points of the heal check, the medic can restore 1d4+1 additional ability score damage.

Curing ability drain requires 1 day per check. It requires 100GP worth of medical supplies to accomplish.

DC 30: Heals 1 ability 1 point
DC 35: Heals 1 ability 1d4+1 points
DC 40: Heals 1 ability 2d4+2 points
For every 5 points of the heal check, the medic can restore 1d4+1 additional ability score drain.

The time and cost required to remove a condition varies.
Blinded/Deafened: DC 25, 1 day, 100GP
Dazed/Dazzled: DC 15, 1 Standard Action, 5GP
Energy Drained: DC 25, 1 day, 100GP (Removes 1 negative level)
Exhausted: DC 15, 1 Standard Action, 5GP; makes target Fatigued
Fatigued: DC 15, 1 Standard Action, 5GP
Nauseated: DC 25, 1 Standard Action, 5GP
Sickened: DC 20, 1 Standard Action, 5GP
Stunned: DC 20, 1

 

[starwed]

You might want to glance at the d20 modern rules (where the skill is called treat injury.) Specifically, the option for surgery, which can make recovering from really serious injuries more possible:

Surgery (DC 20): With a surgery kit, a character can conduct field surgery. This application of the Treat Injury skill carries a –4 penalty, which can be negated with the Surgery feat. Surgery requires 1d4 hours; if the patient is at negative hit points, add an additional hour for every point below 0 the patient has fallen.

Surgery restores 1d6 hit points for every character level of the patient (up to the patient’s full normal total of hit points) with a successful skill check. Surgery can only be used successfully on a character once in a 24-hour period.

A character who undergoes surgery is fatigued for 24 hours, minus 2 hours for every point above the DC the surgeon achieves. The period of fatigue can never be reduced below 6 hours in this fashion.

Something like this would nicely complement what you've already got; the fact that it heals 1d6hp / level means its still useful at higher levels. The length of time it takes, and the fatigued condition applied to the patient, means that it'll rarely be used mid-dungeon, but it is still an option if the situation is dire enough.

 

[Sadrik]

Looks like a good alternative.
I would make the healing kit have charges.
Then when you heal you use a certain number of charges.
Each charge could be worth 5gp and a full healing kit could be 100gp with 20 charges. This way you wont have to deal with the minutia of what types of 5gp antidotes you have. Did I have a 5gp fatigued antidote or a 5gp sickened antidote.

Also healing is based on the character that is being healed. When you rest you get 1 hp/level or with a heal check you get 2 hp/level. Your system is based on the level of the one who is healing (the higher level the easier it is to attempt higher DCs). I think your system at high level could break down. At low level it will be fine. So I would suggest adding in some ability based on the characters level. So that at high level a character can heal like they did when they were lower level.

DC 10: Heals 1 hp/level of the healed
DC 15: Heals 1d4+1 hp/level of the healed
DC 20: Heals 2d4+2 hp/level of the healed
For every additional 5 points of the heal check, the medic can restore 1d4+1/level of the healed additional hp.

Whatdoyathink?

 

[Pielorinho]

The target cannot be healed this way for more HP than the medic has ranks in the Heal skill during a 24-hour period.

Very cool! A few quick notes:
1) 1d4+1 is essentially the same as 1d6, only harder to roll and calculate. Would you consider going to d6 instead?
2) Under these rules, a seventh-level character with a feat and max ranks in heal could cure 10 HP/day on each of her colleagues. A 7th-level fighter with a 12 Con is going to have 49 HP on average, and a single hit in battle can easily do more than 10 points of damage. Is this what you're going for? It'll mean that characters will need to rest for about three days between major fights, or else risk high mortality levels. (If that's the intent, that's fine; I just wanted to make sure that you'd crunched the numbers).
3) Related to #2, how does the system handle healing attempts by multiple medics? I'm assuming that all healings are cumulative, so if I've been healed 7 points by one medic, and a medic with 12 ranks in heal attempts to cure me, they can heal a max of 5 more points; when one with 13 ranks comes along and attempts to heal me, they can heal one more point. Is that what you intend?
4) Healing damage with a standard action seems awfully generous; would it make more sense to make it take a minute or so?
5) It might be worth putting in a cost for hiring freelance medics' services. I'm thinking they'd charge for their time, maybe something like their heal check bonus to heal wounds, their bonus x5 per hourlong check, and their bonus x10 for day-long checks. (That'd mean that a first-level healer could be pulling in 100 gp/day in theory, making healers very wealthy; of course, they generally won't have that much work).

Daniel

 

[Nareau]

Looks like a good alternative.
I would make the healing kit have charges.

Thanks. I was sorta going for the "healing kit charges" thing by saying a 50GP healing kit has 10 charges, and most simple things require 5GP of materials. You're right though...instead of listing GP values, it would make more sense to say it "requires 1 charge from a Healer's Kit", or "requires 2 full Healer's Kits".

Also healing is based on the character that is being healed.

That's an interesting idea. My thinking behind this system is basically this: A mundane healer should be useful, but nowhere nearly as useful as a cleric who casts a full compliment of healing spells. Hence the monetary, skill, time, and feat costs, and the lower power of mundane healing.

My original calculations looked like this (and was inspired by Hazmat's Thread ):
Cleric Average Magical Healing per Day (assuming Wis 16 and all 1st+ level spells cast to heal)
vs.
Medic Average Mundane Healing per Day (assuming Wis 16, max ranks in Heal, all available healing feats taken, taking 10 on checks, unlimited kits, etc.)
Clr1: 11hp (2d8+2)
Chr1 w/ Medic feat: 3.5hp/target (4 ranks, +3 wis = DC 17 when taking 10; 1d4+1)
Clr5: 117hp (16d8+45); can also cure disease and restore ability scores
Chr5 w/ Medic and Greater Medic feats: 14hp/target (8 ranks, +3 wis = DC 21 when taking 10; 2d4+2)
Chr5 w/ Medic and Surgeon feats: 7hp/target (8 ranks, +3 wis = DC 21 when taking 10; 2d4+2); can sometimes restore ability scores
Clr10: Lots. The Heal spell makes this hard to measure; can also raise dead, restore lost levels, etc.
Chr10 w/ Medic, Greater Medic, and Surgeon feats: 21hp/target (13 ranks, +3 wis = DC 26 when taking 10; (3d4+3)x2)

(Note: The Medic averages are skewed a little too high, as it doesn't take into account the maximum amount possible to be healed due to the rank limit)

My goal is to see a system where someone totally dedicated to healing could end up being 1/3 to 1/2 as effective as an average cleric.

Nareau

 

[Nareau]

Very cool! A few quick notes:
1) 1d4+1 is essentially the same as 1d6, only harder to roll and calculate. Would you consider going to d6 instead?

Hrm. Good point. I had sorta gone with the 1d4+1 so you wouldn't ever end up just rolling a 1, but that's a pretty minor consideration. I think I will change it to d6s.

2) Under these rules, a seventh-level character with a feat and max ranks in heal could cure 10 HP/day on each of her colleagues.

Can you show how you're getting that? Does that only include someone with the first feat? I'm getting higher numbers.

It'll mean that characters will need to rest for about three days between major fights, or else risk high mortality levels. (If that's the intent, that's fine; I just wanted to make sure that you'd crunched the numbers).

That seems about right. I like the idea that if you get beaten within an inch of your life, it should take a few days under the care of a skilled healer to recover. I want there to be a flavor to mundane healing that's distinct from magical healing.

3) Related to #2, how does the system handle healing attempts by multiple medics? I'm assuming that all healings are cumulative, so if I've been healed 7 points by one medic, and a medic with 12 ranks in heal attempts to cure me, they can heal a max of 5 more points; when one with 13 ranks comes along and attempts to heal me, they can heal one more point. Is that what you intend?

That's exactly right.

4) Healing damage with a standard action seems awfully generous; would it make more sense to make it take a minute or so?

That's a good point. I'm thinking this system would work reasonably well for a campaign with no divine casters, low mortality rate, and a couple of combats per session. I'm also thinking I might add in a clause to one of the feats (possibly Medic) that allows you to take 10 times as long, and instead of curing damage outright, you convert twice as much as you would have cured into subdual damage instead.

5) It might be worth putting in a cost for hiring freelance medics' services.

Also a good point. I'll think about the formula for this. I figure it should reflect the economy of spellcasting: IE, 5.5HP of mundane healing should cost an amount comparable to a 1st level Cure Light Wounds in normal D&D.

Nareau

 

[Pielorinho]

Can you show how you're getting that? Does that only include someone with the first feat? I'm getting higher numbers.

It just includes the first feat; with two feats, they'd heal 20 points at that level.

That seems about right. I like the idea that if you get beaten within an inch of your life, it should take a few days under the care of a skilled healer to recover. I want there to be a flavor to mundane healing that's distinct from magical healing.

Okay, cool. This will shift the balance in favor of wizards, I think (since they'll take less time to recover to full HP, plus given the weakness of their meatshields they'll probably be willing to blow their entire repertoire of spells on a single battle), but in this campaign, that makes senes to me.

That's a good point. I'm thinking this system would work reasonably well for a campaign with no divine casters, low mortality rate, and a couple of combats per session. I'm also thinking I might add in a clause to one of the feats (possibly Medic) that allows you to take 10 times as long, and instead of curing damage outright, you convert twice as much as you would have cured into subdual damage instead.

I definitely like that idea!

 

[Pielorinho]

I had an idea for a different flavor, which may or may not work, but i thought I'd throw it out.

It sits a little off with me that, under this system, the lower your class HP and the lower your CON, the easier it is for a healer to patch you up to full HP. That's also true under normal rules, but I guess I hadn't thought about it before--and besides, normal rules is magic .

What if, instead of healing a flat amount, a successful heal check healed you one hit die plus Con modifier? If you have multiple hit die types, you take your mode: a Brb5/Wiz2 would heal d12s, while a Brb2/Wiz5 would heal d4s.

This means that it'd take approximately the same number of successful rolls to heal each character up to their full amount, or to the same fraction of their full amount.

Of course, this leads to higher healing totals than your current system. Adjustments to the DCs could fix that.

Daniel

 

[GreatLemur]

That's a good point. I'm thinking this system would work reasonably well for a campaign with no divine casters, low mortality rate, and a couple of combats per session. I'm also thinking I might add in a clause to one of the feats (possibly Medic) that allows you to take 10 times as long, and instead of curing damage outright, you convert twice as much as you would have cured into subdual damage instead.

I think subdual damage is a great idea, here. In fact, in order to keep magical healing on top, and to keep a distinct flavor for mundane healing, maybe the Heal skill should always just convert lethal damage into nonlethal, rather than actually healing any. It makes sense in terms of both flavor and logic--the wounds are stitched up, but the flesh is still damaged and the body is still shocked, drained, aching, and most importantly in need of rest--and I think that then it would actually be possible to get away with healing (well, nonlethalizing) based on the patient's level.

So let's a 10th-level Fighter with 85 HP gets taken down to 0, and the party medic goes to work on him, converting 1d6 per patient HD into nonlethal damage. He'll get an average of 35, so the Fighter is still at 0 HP, but 35 of that is only nonlethal damage. He can then rest up for just four hours to recover all of that nonlethal damage (at 1 point per HD per hour), and be at 35 HP. He's basically ready to go again--cautiously--without spending the night in the dungeon or using magical healing (but you know he's wishing there was a Cleric in the party all the same).

On the other hand, if it was a 10th level Wizard with about 33 HP that got his ass kicked, that 1d6 points per HD of lethal-to-nonlethal conversion would have him perfectly healthy after four hours. Hmm. Basically, this would be really great used on folks with d6 or worse hit dice, which is pretty weird. But then that's pretty much par for the course with the hit point system. So I dunno. I really like the idea of just converting lethal damage instead of healing it, though.

 

[Pielorinho]

On the other hand, if it was a 10th level Wizard with about 33 HP that got his ass kicked, that 1d6 points per HD of lethal-to-nonlethal conversion would have him perfectly healthy after four hours. Hmm. Basically, this would be really great used on folks with d6 or worse hit dice, which is pretty weird. But then that's pretty much par for the course with the hit point system. So I dunno. I really like the idea of just converting lethal damage instead of healing it, though.

These two systems might combine well with each other. Namely:
-The medic only converts lethal damage into nonlethal damage; and
-The amount of damage converted is based on the target's main hit die type and con modifier.

Daniel