More house rules for heal checks

[Nareau]

I don't much like the idea of basing the healing off the target's HD. While that kinda jibes with the "natural healing" rules, it somehow doesn't sit right with me. I guess it's because I want the skill of the healer to be the determining factor in recovery, not the beefiness of the target. If there were some way to use both while keeping it elegant and much less useful than magic, I could be into that.

Rather than thinking of HP loss as a percentage thing, I think of it as a wound thing. If a wizard and a fighter both get stabbed three times by the same dagger, why would it be easier for a medic to sew up the fighter just because he could survive another 10 stabbings?

Here's a revision. Looking at it, I realize it would be far less powerful than the original. I'm tempted to change the cap from "max damage healed = max rank" to "max damage healed = total bonus on your roll". I dunno. Thinking of a 1st level character being able to take 20 on a heal check and restore their entire party 2d6 hp each over a few hours kinda seems like a lot.

Medic [General]
Prerequisites: Heal 1 rank
Benefit
You are able to convert some wounds into subdual damage using non-magical medical procedures. The target cannot be healed this way for more HP than the medic has ranks in the Heal skill during a 24-hour period.

DC 15: Converts 1d6 hp
DC 20: Converts 2d6 hp
For every additional 5 points of the Heal check, the medic can restore an additional 1d6 hp.

Converting damage in this way takes 1 minute, and requires one use from a Healer's Kit. A standard Healer's Kit provides 10 such uses, and provides a +2 bonus on all heal checks. Larger, more advanced Healer's Kits can be purchased at a cost of 5GP per use.

You can attempt to cure damage instead of converting it by taking a -5 penalty on your check.
You can attempt to perform first aid as a standard action by taking a -10 penalty on your check.


Greater Medic [General]
Prerequisites: Heal 8 ranks, Medic
Benefit
You are able to convert twice as many wounds to subdual damage. When making a Heal check to convert wounds, you convert twice the amount listed. The amount converted cannot exceed twice your ranks in Heal during a 24-hour period. The cost, time, and other effects remain the same.


Surgeon [General]
Prerequisites: Heal 8 Ranks, Medic
Benefit
You can cure ability damage, ability drain, and certain conditions.

Curing ability damage requires 1 hour per check. It requires 5 uses from a Healer's Kit.

DC 20: Heals 1 ability 1 point
DC 25: Heals 1 ability 1d6 points
DC 30: Heals 1 ability 2d6 points
For every 5 points of the heal check, the medic can restore an additional 1d6 points of ability score damage.

Curing ability drain requires 1 day per check. It requires 20 uses from a Healer's Kit.

DC 30: Heals 1 ability 1 point
DC 35: Heals 1 ability 1d6 points
DC 40: Heals 1 ability 2d6 points
For every 5 points of the heal check, the medic can restore an additional 1d6 points of ability score drain.

The time and cost required to remove a condition varies. Note that conditions caused by magical effects with a duration other than "instantaneous" cannot be cured by the Heal skill.
Blinded/Deafened: DC 25, 1 day, 20 uses
Dazed/Dazzled: DC 15, 1 Standard Action, 1 use
Energy Drained: DC 25, 1 day, 20 uses (Removes 1 negative level)
Exhausted: DC 15, 1 Standard Action, 1 use; makes target Fatigued
Fatigued: DC 15, 1 Standard Action, 1 use
Nauseated: DC 25, 1 Standard Action, 1 use
Sickened: DC 20, 1 Standard Action, 1 use
Stunned: DC 20, 1 Standard Action, 1 use

Thanks for all the input, guys!

Nareau

 

[CRGreathouse]

Rather than thinking of HP loss as a percentage thing, I think of it as a wound thing. If a wizard and a fighter both get stabbed three times by the same dagger, why would it be easier for a medic to sew up the fighter just because he could survive another 10 stabbings?

Because the fighter was better able to take those dagger hits and turn them into less serious wounds. The fighter isn't turning from flesh to wood to stone to iron as he levels, making him that much more able to soak up damage (though he may become somewhat tougher through higher Con); he's getting better at turning major injuries into minor.

That said, if the granularity of working at the HD level is too hard to work into your system, there's no reason you need to change it. It's good enough now (though perhaps strong at level 1 and weak after level 4).

 

[ValhallaGH]

Why not have the recovery be 1 hp per target creature's hit die, up to a max of the healer's Heal skill bonus? Simple, relates to both the target and the healer and possibly even elegant (I'm too biased to tell for sure).

If that's too much then you could limit it to heal ranks but that seems like an unnecessary weakening of the Skill Focus and Self-Sufficient feats. Possibly only count ranks and any benefits from feats for the cap? That way training is all that matters, not equipment spells or talent (Wis).

It's not a lot of recovery but it's a darn sight better than no recovery.

You could even have some School of Surgery feat that coverts 1d6 hp per HD into subdual, with the same cap.

 

[Pielorinho]

Rather than thinking of HP loss as a percentage thing, I think of it as a wound thing. If a wizard and a fighter both get stabbed three times by the same dagger, why would it be easier for a medic to sew up the fighter just because he could survive another 10 stabbings?

As CRGreathouse said, hit points refer in part to actual damage and in part to ability to deflect damage--at least, that's how I tend to think of it.

I don't much like the idea of basing the healing off the target's HD. While that kinda jibes with the "natural healing" rules, it somehow doesn't sit right with me. I guess it's because I want the skill of the healer to be the determining factor in recovery, not the beefiness of the target. If there were some way to use both while keeping it elegant and much less useful than magic, I could be into that.

What I was describing would make the healer's skill the determining factor in the percentage of HP that the patient recovers. It would take a healer 3 days to heal an unconscious mage or an unconscious fighter, roughly speaking, instead of taking a lot less time to heal the unconscious mage with 8 Con than it took to heal the unconscious barbarian with 20 con.

It would work very similarly to the system you described, something like this:

DC 20: Converts 1 hd +con
For every 5 points by which this DC is exceeded, one more HD+con of lethal damage are converted into nonlethal damage.

Your average first level character with medic might have a total of +9 on their roll (4 ranks +3 wis +2 heal kit), meaning they'd need to spend 5-10 GP to heal someone as much as they could (i.e., 4 ranks worth).

Your average 7th level PC with greater medic might have a total of +16 on their roll (10 ranks +4 wis +2 kit), meaning they could take 10 to heal someone 2HD+2xcon. For clerics, rangers, monks, fighters, paladins, and barbarians, this is pretty likely to get them close to their max. A second taking 10 would get them to their max (i.e., cure them 20 HP). Rogues, bards, sorcerers, and wizards would probably need additional rolls.

Hmm. I just realized two things:
1) My suggestion puts a greater emphasis on the max HP cured per day, whereas yours doesn't. Maybe mine's not such a good idea after all!
2) If I'm reading your rules correctly, it'd probably be much better for a healer always to take 10. At 7th level, the healer I described could reliably take 10 to heal people under your system for 3d6 points of damage, and max out at 5d6 (nat 20+16=36), which will cure slightly less on average than the maximum of 20 points. So the healer will almost always need to make two rolls & spend 10 gold to cure someone the full 20 points; they may as well take 10 both times.

Daniel

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

This is really close to what I have used IMC... perhaps your rules can benefit from a glance at mine...
here is my version:

Assumptions:
. <14th level world. Emergency care should be sufficient to restore complete health to the avergage joe {<4th level}
. Natural Healing is not instantaneous, hence conversion to non-lethal
. Natural Healing doesn't always work, hence the potential loss of hps and limit to usage per wounding.


===============
Emergency Care:
Convert some damage from Lethal to Non-Lethal within the 'Golden Time' shortly after the character is wounded.
With a successful Heal check vs DC 15 and 2 full round actions spent within the 'Golden Time'
from when the character was wounded, you convert a number of damage points from Lethal to Non-Lethal. This number is a Cure Roll, detailed below. While performing this action, you and your patient are denied DEX and you must have both hands free to tend the wounds.
You must also be able to reach the wounded portion of the patient.
If you take damage while performing this skill use, you must make a Concentration check DC 5 + all damage taken that round. Failure extends the time required to apply Emergency Care by 1 Full round action.

Retry: A failed check increases the DC by +5.
Any previous successful attempts that day increases the Cure Roll penalty to the amount of hit points converted. {Essentially, it becomes much harder to improve on natural healing and easier to mess up}
Hurried Care: You may hurry the attempt, increasing the base DC to 25 and reduce the check to one full round action.
Hasty Care: You may work even faster, increasing the base DC to 35 and reduce the check to a standard action.

'Golden Time': Emergency care must be provided within 1 minute (10 rounds ) of the injury

Cure Roll: A negative results in the character losing that number of hit points and begins Bleeding 1 hit point per round until stabilized.
The base penalty is 2, which may be increased by previous successful cures {as noted below}. The Base Die type is 1D4.

If you have 5 ranks in the Heal skill and use a Healers kit, you increase the Base Die by one step.
You can use either Herbology *or* Alchemy to improve the benefit of a Healing Kit:
If you have 5 ranks in the Herbalist skill, and use a Herbalist Bag, you increase the Base Die by one step.
If you have 5 ranks in the Alchemy skill and use an Alchemist Bag, you increase the Base Die by one step.
{these bags cost 1/2 the price of a normal Healers kit and are harder to find. They have 5 uses.}

If you have 5 ranks in Religion and use Blessed Sacraments, you increase the Base Die by one step, however the patient must have faith that this will work. They must make a Devotion Check, a WILL save modified by Knowledge: Religion ranks vs DC 20, or the Cure has no effect. Making this save indicates a devotion to the attendee's deity and can have negative impact on divine casters abilities. The patient can choose to fail this save.
Faith Healing can be combined with Herbology or Alchemy.
{Blessed Sacraments is a 1st Level HR spell similar to Magic Weapon. It can affect up to 50 sacraments, normally wafers of bread, or one object. If used on a single object, that object becomes a Holy Symbol.}

Feats:
Expert Healer: General
Requirements: 5 ranks of Heal.
Benefit: The 'Golden Time' you can use Emergency Care in expands to 1 hour
Normal: The 'Golden Time' you can use Emergency Care is 1 minute {10 rounds}

Surgeon: General
Requirements: Expert Healer, 5 ranks in either Alchemy or Herbalist
Benefit: You can use additional Cure Rolls equal to your INT modifier before incurring penalties to the Cure Roll. For each additional Cure Roll you use, you cause 1 point of CON drain to the patient.
Normal: You only have 1 Cure Roll per use of Emergency Care.

Faith Healer: General
Requirements: Expert Healer, Religion: 5 Ranks
Benefit: You can use additional Cure Rolls equal to your CHR modifier before incurring penalties to the Cure Roll. For each additional Cure Roll you use, you cause 1 point of WIS drain. If your Patient is willing, they automatically make the Devotion Check.
Normal: You only have 1 Cure Roll per use of Emergency Care and a Devotion save is required to benefit from a religious healing.


{I am thinking of adding a benefit along the lines of:
You can trade Cure rolls for various miraculous/surgical healing. However, when doing so, you cause 1 point of Stat Damage, instead of Stat Drain, for each Cure Roll used in this manner.
1 Cure roll to Negate Poison
2 Cure Rolls to remove Blindness/Deafness
3 Cure Rolls to remove Paralysis.
.. etc.. not very sure on the cost/benefit of this ...}


Interaction with Magical Healing:
Emergency Care is ineffective if the patient has received Magical Healing for the wounds, altho a negative Cure Roll will still cause damage.

=======================

With these rules a dedicated Faith Healer using a Healing Bag and a Herbalist kit could reliably convert 1D10-2 points of damage to non-lethal for each of thier same-faith allies after each battle.

 

[airwalkrr]

I like the idea of the OP's rule even if I don't like this specific example. For me, a tamer version would suffice. A DC 20 Heal check with one use of a healer's kit restores 1 hp plus 1 additional hp per 5 full points by which the character making the check beats the DC. This check takes 10 minutes (preventing it from being used in combat or extensively as cheap healing, but helpful to get a character conscious). Failure by 5 or more means the use of the healer's kit is wasted.

The acid test: A 1st level cleric with 4 ranks in Heal, 18 Wisdom, Self-Sufficient, and Skill Focus (Heal) has a +13. If this cleric always takes 10 on Heal checks, he heals only 1 hp every 10 minutes. By the time he is 3rd level, he heals 2 hp if he takes 10. And so on. That seems reasonable to me and also a bit more realistic.