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*Dungeons & Dragons
More HP - was it a good idea?
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7206991" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Yep, that's a big difference not just to the actual logistics of the attrition model, but to the feel of it.</p><p></p><p>(apologies if I mostly repeat what you had to say)</p><p></p><p>In AD&D, your hps were random, so could be quite low at first if not for a while beyond, and healing was a starkly limited resource in the course of a 'day' (which might actually be 4 hours or so, depending on what level spells you were recovering and how closely your DM had read the rules) but unlimited when you could just kick back for days at a time, so characters might press on injured - but, at the same time, getting dropped to 0 had a major penalty (even if it wasn't death, it was a week off adventuring), so you might need to heal them right then and there in the fight, lest they drop. So you'd fight a little, use spells to heal, when the Cleric ran out of spells, the adventure was prettymuch over. You'd retire from the dungeon (some DMs'd let you barricade yourself in a room), spend a 'day' (4hrs + 15 min/spell level) getting spells back, heal everyone, spend another 'day' topping off spells (repeat as necessary), and go back to the re-stocked-with-monsters and/or stripped-of-treasure dungeon. Attrition was in terms of hps & slots, since recovering hps any other way than magic was pointlessly slow with spells recovering every day.</p><p></p><p>In 3e, after a few levels, the WoCLW (and the like) made all that kind of moot. After each fight you'd spend a few minutes topping everyone off, and the CoDzillas could save all their slots for self-buffing (and animal-companion-buffing) and DC-optimized SoDs and the like. Attrition was in terms of slots, and slots weren't used for healing unless there was no other demand for it. Heck, if you got into full-on rocket-tag, attrition could be top-level slots, since they had the highest DCs, and why settle for anything less?</p><p></p><p>4e actually kept that dynamic (minus CoDzilla), with an innate, plentiful source of between-combat healing - the surge. Attrition was mainly in terms of surges and, also somewhat-separately (since non-surge healing was rare) daily powers (mostly attack, but also utility & item).</p><p></p><p> In-combat healing isn't too different (proportionately) to what you could do with CLW back in the day, and between-combat healing doesn't rise to the level of 3e & 4e, so it's prettymuch a compromise position on attrition, really. Slot attrition probably trumps hp attrition most of the time, since slots can be used to heal, so if hps are holding you back, you can maybe press on a bit by blowing slots to heal, and most classes have daily slots to recharge. In addition, overnight healing means that there's no cycle of two or more days of casting and recovering healing magic to get back into the adventure.</p><p></p><p>In other editions, either the danger of being dropped to 0 was greater, or the opportunity cost to heal was less, or the decision to allocate slots to healing had to be made in advance, or the healing up from below zero was counted, or the amount of healing relative to the amount & consistency of damage was more significant, than in 5e (or some combination!). </p><p></p><p>Bottom line: in other editions pro-active in-combat healing could sometimes make sense, and in the classic game between-combat healing with spells was often necessary, while 5e in-combat healing is best reserved for when an ally actually drops, and slots can generally be used for other things.</p><p></p><p></p><p> IDK, could have been, it was a long time ago. I recall the rationale for the name we gave the +1d6 hps at 1st, not if that was also the reason for doing it in the first place. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>Anyway, it certainly didn't hurt.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7206991, member: 996"] Yep, that's a big difference not just to the actual logistics of the attrition model, but to the feel of it. (apologies if I mostly repeat what you had to say) In AD&D, your hps were random, so could be quite low at first if not for a while beyond, and healing was a starkly limited resource in the course of a 'day' (which might actually be 4 hours or so, depending on what level spells you were recovering and how closely your DM had read the rules) but unlimited when you could just kick back for days at a time, so characters might press on injured - but, at the same time, getting dropped to 0 had a major penalty (even if it wasn't death, it was a week off adventuring), so you might need to heal them right then and there in the fight, lest they drop. So you'd fight a little, use spells to heal, when the Cleric ran out of spells, the adventure was prettymuch over. You'd retire from the dungeon (some DMs'd let you barricade yourself in a room), spend a 'day' (4hrs + 15 min/spell level) getting spells back, heal everyone, spend another 'day' topping off spells (repeat as necessary), and go back to the re-stocked-with-monsters and/or stripped-of-treasure dungeon. Attrition was in terms of hps & slots, since recovering hps any other way than magic was pointlessly slow with spells recovering every day. In 3e, after a few levels, the WoCLW (and the like) made all that kind of moot. After each fight you'd spend a few minutes topping everyone off, and the CoDzillas could save all their slots for self-buffing (and animal-companion-buffing) and DC-optimized SoDs and the like. Attrition was in terms of slots, and slots weren't used for healing unless there was no other demand for it. Heck, if you got into full-on rocket-tag, attrition could be top-level slots, since they had the highest DCs, and why settle for anything less? 4e actually kept that dynamic (minus CoDzilla), with an innate, plentiful source of between-combat healing - the surge. Attrition was mainly in terms of surges and, also somewhat-separately (since non-surge healing was rare) daily powers (mostly attack, but also utility & item). In-combat healing isn't too different (proportionately) to what you could do with CLW back in the day, and between-combat healing doesn't rise to the level of 3e & 4e, so it's prettymuch a compromise position on attrition, really. Slot attrition probably trumps hp attrition most of the time, since slots can be used to heal, so if hps are holding you back, you can maybe press on a bit by blowing slots to heal, and most classes have daily slots to recharge. In addition, overnight healing means that there's no cycle of two or more days of casting and recovering healing magic to get back into the adventure. In other editions, either the danger of being dropped to 0 was greater, or the opportunity cost to heal was less, or the decision to allocate slots to healing had to be made in advance, or the healing up from below zero was counted, or the amount of healing relative to the amount & consistency of damage was more significant, than in 5e (or some combination!). Bottom line: in other editions pro-active in-combat healing could sometimes make sense, and in the classic game between-combat healing with spells was often necessary, while 5e in-combat healing is best reserved for when an ally actually drops, and slots can generally be used for other things. IDK, could have been, it was a long time ago. I recall the rationale for the name we gave the +1d6 hps at 1st, not if that was also the reason for doing it in the first place. ;) Anyway, it certainly didn't hurt. [/QUOTE]
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