More level-up choices to take?
- Thread starter LukeZZ
- Start date
S
Sunseeker
Guest
I think Backgrounds could stand to have some later-level choices. Not a lot, but some, or at least some guidelines for it.
But there's a fine line between choices and traps. Previous editions had lots of traps and very few real choices.
But there's a fine line between choices and traps. Previous editions had lots of traps and very few real choices.
Barantor
Explorer
This.
There is always multi-classing, which for some reason with 5E seems to be some sort of taboo. Feats are good for variance, but I find that too much 'crunch' and not as much story leads to boredom just as easily.
A character has an infinite number of choices they can make... they just come out during gameplay rather than on the character sheet. If someone sees their character as nothing more than just numbers on a piece of paper, then sure... levelling up does not give them a huge amount of forks in the road. But the ultimate hope of those that make and run the game is that players see their characters as more than just a sheet of paper. So that every choice the character gets to make *in the game world* is not only just as valid, but in fact is MORE important than any mechanical choice the player makes upon level up.
It's the reason why the original game 40 years ago survived and worked fine when PCs had no real choices for level-up at all. Because it was living in the world that gave players the chance to make choices.
It's the reason why the original game 40 years ago survived and worked fine when PCs had no real choices for level-up at all. Because it was living in the world that gave players the chance to make choices.
There is a valid concern that all 9th level fighters (or any other class/level) are very similar in regard to their skills/abilities. That is more a consequence of running a level based system than an inherent defect in 5th ed.
On the other end of the spectrum are skill based systems (GURPS for example). These allow for highly individualized characters.
Prior editions of D&D tried to hang some skill based mechanics onto a level based system. Most of the attempts failed due to balance issues (but I did love playing my longsword double specialized fighter/magic user in 2nd edition!).
Like Defcon1 stated, the RP aspect is where 5th Ed. shines. Having a very loose framework allows players to take characters in any direction they want. In my current party we have a rogue who is looking to start a thieves guild, a mage who has a budding love affair with a cute apprentice, a paladin who is quickly becoming a kingdom level army commander, and a ranger who is contemplating a bargain with a demon lord in order to avenge the death of her mother.
On the other end of the spectrum are skill based systems (GURPS for example). These allow for highly individualized characters.
Prior editions of D&D tried to hang some skill based mechanics onto a level based system. Most of the attempts failed due to balance issues (but I did love playing my longsword double specialized fighter/magic user in 2nd edition!).
Like Defcon1 stated, the RP aspect is where 5th Ed. shines. Having a very loose framework allows players to take characters in any direction they want. In my current party we have a rogue who is looking to start a thieves guild, a mage who has a budding love affair with a cute apprentice, a paladin who is quickly becoming a kingdom level army commander, and a ranger who is contemplating a bargain with a demon lord in order to avenge the death of her mother.
Came on, that's not what I was talking about. It's clear that PC will be taking a lot of "in game choices".
Having more "true" (as opposed to "trap") "crunch" choices to make doesn't prevent roleplaying, and vice versa.
I liked very much the Talent Trees of the d20 Modern. Every class had various Talent Trees and by gaining levels you could start new trees or advance in known trees (normally they had 3 "steps"). So you could specialize or differentiate. I think those where "true" choises (and not "traps"). This is what I'm talking about.
Barantor
Explorer
That's fine and all and D&D usually gains more options as the edition progresses, but one of the things they have stated they want to curtail was 'splat bloat', so you might be disappointed for quite some time. Unearthed Arcana offers more choices, but again those are rather slow to come out overall.
Gurps is definitely the system you want if you want to drown in choices lol.
I never played an RPG with a framework that precluded players from taking characters in any directions the wanted: I think that with every fantasy RPG ruleset rogues, mages, paladins and rangers could do what you said. The "limiting" factor would have been the campaign, not the rules framework.
I don't think that something like the d20 Modern Talents Trees could lead to be "drown in choices". There can be a midde point between the extremes. I only felt 5th had very few of those "crunch choice moments".
ExploderWizard
Hero
In general, spell casters have more crunch based choices than other classes. You get to choose new spells every single level and there are a lot of caster classes.
Talent trees and feat chains are just traps of a different sort. They channel your focus into narrower and narrower niches until you feel obligated to become a one trick pony to get the most out of these choices. In actual play it leads to mechanics first problem solving. Hey I have a neat widget that I'm heavily invested in. I need to find a way to use it at every opportunity.
Such methods are the enemy of out of the box problem solving and inventive play. Your specialty makes your character a hammer in a constant search for nails. So what at first seems like interesting choices to make ends up becoming a pigeon-hole of your own making, leaving you with a character that is LESS interesting overall IMHO.
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