More levels of masterwork

[Duke Frinn]

I think the fact that wizards and not weaponsmiths make the best weapons reduces some of the legendary flavor. It would be nice to have non-magical weapons that are especially reliable and powerful.

Levels of masterwork craftmenship

The regular rules say a masterwork longsword sword gives a +1 bonus to attack rolls. Using this variant, it would also give a +1 to damage.

A +1 longsword, using this variant, would not be magical, but instead would be a higher level of craftmenship than a regular sword. It would cost the same as a magical +1 weapon, except that the normal type would not exist.

Craftmenship levels would range from +1 to +5, just as magical bonuses do. These weapons would work in antimagic fields and would not detect as magical.

All the added abilities (flaming, bane, merciful, etc.) would stay the same, except newer, weaker types should be made for low level wizards to have ways to enhance weapons. New types could be...

Flaming, minor: Acts as a flaming weapn 1/day for 5 rounds.

Enemy Detection: Glows when a certain type of creature is within 50' feet.

Magical burst: store energy as a full-round action, then attack with +4 to attack and damge next turn. usable 1/day.

Comments? Ideas?

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I like the idea of better masterwork weapons, but don't think enhancements should be nerfed.

I would make the higher masterworks cheaper than magical enchantments, as well-- they don't breach DR x/magic, they still require at least a magical +1 to add special qualities, and they're not protected from sundering. (I'd give them the extra hardness/HP for being enchanted, but not the immunity to lesser enchantments.)

I also would not allow magical enchantments to stack with it, and slap silly a player who tried to bring me a magical +1, masterwork +5 weapon with a bunch of enchantments on it.

On the other hand, extra-masterwork adamantine or cold silver weapons would be an excellent way to make Forsakers a bit more of a threat, either with the PCs or against them.

 

[las]

I like this idea as well but I would need to do it different.

 

[AeroDm]

I think this idea has a lot of potential. I'd like to see some craft dcs tied to the various plusses and perhaps some ideas on requiring components so it isn't just a bunch of cash and a really skilled craftsman making a +5 sword. If you want to add back the "flavor" I'd include some item reqs.

Also I think I'd allow the plusses to count as the +1 required for magical enhancements. The magical plusses would no longer exist (i am pretty sure this was in the original message).

I have often considered saying that you cannot have more plusses from enhancements than you have base, thus nullifying the +1 magic with +9 enhancements that still overrides DR x/magic. I think that would work well with this system.

As for the nerfed enhancements, I wouldn't do them as plusses. I'd do them as special base line powers like armor does. Say +10k for the "enemy alerting" ability (note that 10k popped into my head, even I feel it is too high). All in all I like it a lot.

 

[AeroDm]

I like this idea as well but I would need to do it different.

Care to elaborate?

 

[las]

AeroDm I wouls price the next level up double the one before it thous.

A +2 masterwork weapon would cost an extra 600 gp. +3 would cost and extra 1,200 ect. Also it would not add to damage just attack power.

 

[Duke Frinn]

Thanks for your replys.

Indeed, if you use these rules then you shouldn't have magical plusses as well as normal plusses. For a while I considered having two systems, but with antimagic fields and damage reduction it becomes quite complicated, especially if you use a (+3 MW) +2 longsword, for example.

No. There should be one system for plusses and another for abilities.

The reason I introduced "nerfed" abilities is this:

Using current rules, a 5th level wizard could create a +1 sword. Using this house rule, he must wait until he is a high enough level to add an ability to a +1 sword (and he can't make it +2).

So the low-power abilities make up for it. They are not quite as powerful as +1 bonus abilities, and so they have, as suggested, a price rather than a plus equivelant.

While only a weaponsmith can create a +1 axe, a 5th level wizard can add minor abilities to it, such as 'Glow' for +500, 'Identify Enemy' for +700, or 'Magical Hardness' for +500.

And how does a craftsmen create a masterwork weapon?

I think that making a +1 should cost more money and be a difficult check for a 5th level expert. +2 would require more money and be a challanging check for a 7th level expert.

+3, other than costing more, might require a special material, such as adamantine (this would be a variation on the normal rules for adamantine giving any weapon a plus).

+4 or +5 should cost a ton to create. Also, the expert would need to find a perfect rare material such as the fang of a sandworm, or one that he created through the use of non-magical alchemy, or craft (chemistry).

In the end it is the flavour and not the rules that matter. A +5 weapon would be a work of art, like the six-fingered sword made by domingo montoya, or Narsil, Isildur's lord of the rings' sword, or a dwarven hammer that took the greatest weaponsmith in the mountains two centuries to create.

I would rule that even a plain battered +0 shortsword could gain special magicsl abilities. To avoid confusion with masterwork 'bonuses' I would say that magical abilities fill 'slots'. A wizard with the right feat could fill up to 4 slots (he could turn a longsword into a speed longsword, or into a flaming burst shocking troll-bane longsword). By taking the "Improved" feat, he could create a weapon with an extra 2 slots.

Thus, at a very high level a wizard could take a +5 nunchaku, and add 6 "slots" of abilities... only 1 bonus higher than the current rules allow.

 

[clark411]

Personally, I'd like to see a mechanic that would have superior weaponry work better in the hands of those who had a deeper understanding of the way weapons work. Perhaps a Fighter getting a sole benefit from one aspect of Superior weaponry, a Paladin getting another, a Ranger a third, etc.. so long as they were of sufficient level to ... grasp.. the detail of the weapon in action.

example

The Sword of Tumoin
Superior Bastardsword. +1 to hit as MW.
In the hands of a fighter 3 or paladin 4, an extra +1 to hit
In the hands of a fighter 8, +1 to damage. (or for the anti +1 damage crowd, something else)

Obviously a Fighter's weapon, but still good material to make into a magic weapon if not used in such a manner.

 

[Nifft]

I think the fact that wizards and not weaponsmiths make the best weapons reduces some of the legendary flavor. It would be nice to have non-magical weapons that are especially reliable and powerful.

Blacksmith/Priests would make the best weapons, so IMHO that's not really a concern -- Wizards don't bother making weapons, since they can't really use them. Clerics, on the other hand, are often involved with organizations that support legendary crusaders -- who need legendary weapons.

 

[trentonjoe]

This gets a little tedious but I like real specific nonmagical enhancements. Example:

armor piercing: adds +2 to attack rolls agianst creatures with an armor bonus - +2,000

Wide bladed: adds +1 to hit against creatures with a deflection bonus- +1,000

Sharp- adds +4 to confirm crititcal hits - +2,000

Keen, vorpal, and defending all can be duplicated as well.

I just kinda guessed at gp values here.