Level Up (A5E) more nuanced stronghold questions

[musashi_san]

here's a plan that illustrates some questions, does this work for a wiz:

build a laboratory to luxurious grade 2 (the minimum), get a free known spell of highest level or a cantrip
build a separate guildhouse to level 3 and get the money discount and +1 wisdom (do you lose the known spell?)
build the lab to grade 6 (do you get the known spell back? do you lose the wisdom bonus or the discount?) and get +2 int
give the guildhouse to a different party member, (do they get the +1 wis? do you lose it? how about the discount?)


etc...

 

[W'rkncacnter]

i'm fairly certain you don't lose previous stronghold feats just because a different stronghold of yours is higher. you get all of them. if you give a stronghold to someone else, you give the feat to them since they become the owner (and maybe also the ASI? not sure about that, but for book keeping reasons you might not want to do that).

RAW, you can only get an ASI from one stronghold, even if each stronghold you'd get one from would give it to a different ability score. i plan to house rule this away because i think it's silly (to you can get an ASI from multiple strongholds, but only one stronghold per ability score).

so most likely RAW it'd look like this:

1. grade 2 laboratory - get free spell or cantrip
2. build guildhouse to level 3 - money discount, +1 wisdom, still have free spell/cantrip
3. lab to grade 6 - get grade 4/5 feat benefits, do not get ASI (because guildhouse)
4. give guildhouse to party member, lose discount, keep +1 wisdom, party member gets +1 wisdom and discount

EDIT: also, with how stronghold ASIs work, if the wizard only got the grade 6 laboratory (or got it first), he'd get +3 int +2 max int, not +2 int (since the grade 3 ASI increases it by 1, and the grade 6 ASI increases it by another 2 and the maximum for the score by 2).

 

[Selganor]

Sidebar on AG p. 362

Multiple Strongholds
You can have as many strongholds as you’re able to buy, but you only ever truly call one of them home. When you gain an additional stronghold, you may immediately choose to make it your permanent stronghold. Otherwise it takes a week of staying in a stronghold for it to become your permanent stronghold. You only gain the benefits granted by your permanent stronghold (including any sub-strongholds within it).

Stronghold Ability Score Increase. The only increase to an ability score you gain is from the first stronghold that grants this benefit. Changing your permanent stronghold or purchasing sub-strongholds does not alter your ability scores.

Prestige Bonus. Your Prestige bonus is determined by your most expensive stronghold, and you do not gain additional Prestige from having additional strongholds.

Prestige Center. When you change your stronghold,you may also choose to make it your Prestige Center (page 433), though if you are purchasing an already constructed
building it takes a week to take effect as stories of your arrival and deeds circulate about the region.

So... If you separate your Laboratory and the Guildhouse you got two strongholds but can only gain the benefits of one of them.
If you combine the two (technically you'd have to have built the larger guildhouse first before putting the smaller laboratory in it but I'd allow building the new stronghold as a larger expansion for the same cost) you'd get all the benefits of both strongholds BUT since this technically is a Guildhouse when you get the stat bonus you'd only get the wis (or cha) bonus.
RAW: "The only increase to an ability score you gain is from the first stronghold that grants this benefit.
Since the lab 6 is "the first stronghold that grants this benefit" you'd add 2 to Int (and raise the maximum Int by 2) and still keep the +1 Wis from the guildhouse.

To get both the lab benefits and the guildhouse benefits (sans ability bonus see above) you'd have to nestle the two building types within each other and effectively paying again for the smaller parts.

Quick calculation:
Step 1: Lab 2 = 1001(minumum grade 2)*2(luxurious) = 2002gp
Step 2: Guildhouse 3 = 5001(minimum grade 2)*2(luxirious - has to be the same as lab) = +10002
Step 3: Lab 5 = 50001(minimum grade 6)*2 = 100002 gp
For a total of: 112006gp

Meaning, you payed 12004gp more for the +1 Wis from the Guildhouse and a 15% discount on mundane goods and services.

 

[musashi_san]

on #3 I don't really follow you, especially given what you say in the EDIT.
where does it say the ASI's all have to be the same attribute?

 

[musashi_san]

my reply was for W'rkncacnter, I think what Selganor said makes sense, but I'm not sure I entirely agree. thinking.

 

[Selganor]

You only get the benefits of one stronghold (your "permanent" stronghold, although I'd rename that to "active") no matter how many strongholds you got. If you want to build or buy strongholds in every town you are... feel free to, but there's only one "home".

Allowing you to keep the benefits of all your strongholds can add up quickly:

Some examples for up to 250gp are:

• Encampment 1 (250gp for 1 frugal acre): You gain an expertise die on ability checks made to hide in natural surroundings.
• Library 1 (200gp for 100 luxurious sqft.): You gain an expertise die whenever you make an Intelligence check using a skill you are proficient with.
• Sacred Grove 1 (250gp for 1 frugal acre): Choose one skill you are proficient with. If you are in natural, outdoor surroundings you gain an expertise die whenever you make an ability check using the chosen skill.
• Shop 1 (100gp for 100 average sqft.): You gain an expertise die on ability checks made to barter or trade for goods.
• Workshop 1 (200gp for 100 luxurious sqft.): Choose the type of workshop. You gain an expertise die on ability checks made to craft items in your workshop.

 

[musashi_san]

yeah this is kind of what I was getting at. reading it RAW it kind of seems like you can do that in some places of the text, and in other places not so much. it can get out of control quickly if this is allowed, clearly.
another example would be building a house of grade 3 average (3000gp) and then passing it around to every party member and granting +1 cha to each of them. and then do this with each ability. so +1 to any attributes for the whole party for an investment of gold that is doable in the middle levels. yikes.

 

[musashi_san]

the benefits are nice and useful and all but ASI's are much more than those...

 

[Selganor]

The "Stronghold Ability Score Increase" paragraph pretty much nukes the idea of just buying 6 strongholds (one per stat) and passing them around a group.

Once you got a +1 (or a +2) from a stronghold you can't get another +1 (or +2) to another stat

 

[musashi_san]

yeah I realized I wrote that and amended that. still, you can buy one for each stat someone wants and pass it to each person that needs it and get +1 to anything for everyone.