Particle_Man
Explorer
One possible compromise. Give the tougher monsters only the Toughness feat, multiple times. They have more hp but their attacks, etc., are not so enhanced.
More Players = More Monsters or Tougher Monsters?
- Thread starter andargor
- Start date
I've been running large groups for years now. My current group has 8 players plus a DM. I've found that an 8 player group can typically handle an EL of about 2-3 higher than the typical 4 player group can. Why 2-3 rather than just 2 (as the DM would suggest)? Simply put, an 8 player group tends to have very few weak links in the group's abilities and usually has redudant capabilities against any opponent (e.g. several front line goons, several arcane casters, several healers, several trap-busters). With good strategy, such a group is surprisingly robust.
I tend to favour MORE monsters as a general rule (say about 75% of the time) but I will often use a single big nasty foe with a very high CR. The thing with higher than "DMG recommended" CR foes is you have think about how their abilities will affect a large group differently than a smaller group. Watch out for area effects, gaze attacks and other special abilities that can hurt a large group just as easily a smaller one. Also note if your monster is simply too powerful a melee brute for the party to cope with (if yes, consider ways to adjust the circumstances of the encounter to keep it interesting - e.g. your giant might be a bit drunk or stupid and use poor tactics instead of creaming a single foe quickly and moving on to the next one). Be especially careful about special abilities that are too powerful for a lower-level group to counteract.
I've watched an 8 person party shred CRs as high as 7 above their level (admittedly they used solid tactics there). I've also seen "easy" encounters with creatures that have an area or gaze attack decimate them when everyone had lousy dice luck on a save.
I tend to favour MORE monsters as a general rule (say about 75% of the time) but I will often use a single big nasty foe with a very high CR. The thing with higher than "DMG recommended" CR foes is you have think about how their abilities will affect a large group differently than a smaller group. Watch out for area effects, gaze attacks and other special abilities that can hurt a large group just as easily a smaller one. Also note if your monster is simply too powerful a melee brute for the party to cope with (if yes, consider ways to adjust the circumstances of the encounter to keep it interesting - e.g. your giant might be a bit drunk or stupid and use poor tactics instead of creaming a single foe quickly and moving on to the next one). Be especially careful about special abilities that are too powerful for a lower-level group to counteract.
I've watched an 8 person party shred CRs as high as 7 above their level (admittedly they used solid tactics there). I've also seen "easy" encounters with creatures that have an area or gaze attack decimate them when everyone had lousy dice luck on a save.
I keep seeing the "use the monsters smarter" schtick.
Just remember if your give the monsters "extra" combat tactics that its also appropriate to adjust the xp by 105% to 150% exp of its normal CR.
Good example-mid level goblin fighter with shot on the run feat. In a forest environment this one cr 9 critter can kill off the party(eventually) as he just keeps popping a shot off and running.
A monk MIGHT be able to catch him, but that one monk is going to go through several rounds of combat fighting the opponent solo while the party catches up.
The same opponent with a ring of invisibility could, without issue, kill off the entire party, and hes not even boosted to insane levels with addition hit die or extra feats.
Yes killing the above would warrant a 50% boost to the encounter xp.
IS the above wrong? not so much. Remember the world your adventure in is supposedly a dynamic world, and what the players do has consequences. A wounded goblin from their earlier days could easily within reason track them down and get revenge for them killing his wife and tribe.
On the flip side i have seen pcs use this same tactic(and i as a player am sure as heck not to scary to say im shooting and running like a bish). Most military have this ingrained into them. Shoot and skoot, dont stay in one place, keep firing and moving. Victory by attrition.
On the rp side its also nerve racking for the pcs. It makes for one memorable encounter.
Solates
Just remember if your give the monsters "extra" combat tactics that its also appropriate to adjust the xp by 105% to 150% exp of its normal CR.
Good example-mid level goblin fighter with shot on the run feat. In a forest environment this one cr 9 critter can kill off the party(eventually) as he just keeps popping a shot off and running.
A monk MIGHT be able to catch him, but that one monk is going to go through several rounds of combat fighting the opponent solo while the party catches up.
The same opponent with a ring of invisibility could, without issue, kill off the entire party, and hes not even boosted to insane levels with addition hit die or extra feats.
Yes killing the above would warrant a 50% boost to the encounter xp.
IS the above wrong? not so much. Remember the world your adventure in is supposedly a dynamic world, and what the players do has consequences. A wounded goblin from their earlier days could easily within reason track them down and get revenge for them killing his wife and tribe.
On the flip side i have seen pcs use this same tactic(and i as a player am sure as heck not to scary to say im shooting and running like a bish). Most military have this ingrained into them. Shoot and skoot, dont stay in one place, keep firing and moving. Victory by attrition.
On the rp side its also nerve racking for the pcs. It makes for one memorable encounter.
Solates
Nonlethal Force
First Post
Christian said:
I like this approach and the more monsters approach. I don't recommend "tougher" monsters because of the aforementioned "special abilities" of tougher creatures as well as the higher spells having harder DCs to resist.
Along with the advancing HP approach ... I also like to take level 1 monsters and give them class levels. I once played in a group that through 15 or so levels about all we fought were orcs, goblinkin, and various related "pets" that were level appropriate. While some get tired of fighting orcs and the like at high levels .. I fought it cool to take on the level 14 barbarian orc or the pair of daggerspell mage goblins. I like fighting enemies with class levels.
But, this approach doesn't work with things like Umber Hulks...
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